Using ranking lists for handicap competition

[SeanC]

I'm thinking of using the average ranking points score for a club handicap competition. Is anyone doing this, or planning to do this?

[Zokko!]

Our club (SROC) has used the new ranking list as a basis for handicapping for the last two club handicap races, traditionally held in January each year. Our handicapper also uses his own knowledge and "all known form" when arriving at each person's handicap, so it isn't so straightforward or obvious as it seems at first.

Using actual positions on the ranking list has produced some anomalies, especially where good orienteers don't have a full set of scores. Therefore your idea of using average points seems sensible.

[NFKleanne]

My club uses average km speed for its handicapp competition.

[CS99er]

Using the Ranking List is rather tricky as the points are not proportional to average speed. So assuming someone who has a ranking of 6000 say, is twice as fast as someone with a ranking of 3000 will not work (there is a considerable bias).

Our club effectively uses average speed data collected over an extended time period. I don't think there is an easy short cut to working out fair handicaps.

[andypat]

Probably depends a bit on the type of competition also. There are some members in our club whose ranking is signficantly better than mine who I have on very odd occasion beaten in sprints or urban, but would never beat on a classic(unless they mp). I think it was Dave Rollins who was at one point ranked in the top 10 with no forest based counting points (a sprint/urban specialist)!

[Tatty]

Dave Rollins is ranked 6th - all Urban/Sprint races

[swat]

Juniors don't currently score ranking points, which may be a problem if you want to include them in your club competition.

[IanD]

Juniors don't currently score ranking points, which may be a problem if you want to include them in your club competition.

Surely juniors should not be allowed to compete in a club competition!

They are excluding from the rankings to protect them from the pressure and stress that a ranking would induce - surely a club competition would cause far more stress?

[swat]

Our club competitions are meant to be fun. Our juniors seem to enjoy them. I've never heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) raise this as an issue.

[seabird]

And that's over at least 24 years.

Doubtless an archivist like awk could take us back even further.

[LostAgain]

I've never heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) raise this as an issue.

That's no excuse.

Have you heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) say they wanted their kids excluded from the ranking list?

[awk]

Have you heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) say they wanted their kids excluded from the ranking list?

Yes - me!

[SeanC]

Thanks for your ideas. It's fairly low key, so now I'm thinking of suggesting that it works like this

a) Estimate the time it will take for the highest ranked competitor to run the course
b) Estimate the time it will take for the lowest ranked competitor with 6 scores to run the course.
c) Plot a graph of average points against expected time, plot the two afforementioned competitors on the graph and draw a straight line between them.
d) Everybody else's expected time is based on their position on the graph. If anyone has no ranking points the person doing the calculation will just guess an expected time.
e) The winner is the person who is furthest ahead, or the least far behind, their expected time.

I realise that as a method of finding out who had the best run compared to recent form it is completely flawed, but it sounds like fun and gives everyone some hope of winning, and doesn't sound like too much work or maths ability required.

[DM]

Have you heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) say they wanted their kids excluded from the ranking list?

Yes - me!

And me, little *** is way ahead of me!

[seabird]

Have you heard anyone (parent, junior or otherwise) say they wanted their kids excluded from the ranking list?

I find it a deeply troubling proposition that a Junior could have their kid in the ranking list

Unless, of course it's "our kid", as in brother.