dying of thirst

[bendover]

i ran elite at the southern champs today, so i guess i qualify for primadonna rights. anyway, very enjoyable event and a good course.

one gripe though... if you're going to put out water stations (and say that they are on the elite course), and you choose for some crazy reason not to have them at a control point, then at least put them somewhere where the vast majority of competitors are going to pass.

both drinks points today were rendered useless for M21E competitors through (lazy?) positioning. how hard is it to walk (or drive?) a couple of hundred metres further with some water containers and plastic cups, and leave them at a control?

rant over. apart from that, thank you very much for a good event!

[Tatty]

Whereas us oldies on the W60 went straight passed one

[Freefall]

I will personally put out the cup for the Elite athlete at the Northern Championships in an easily accessible position. He will pass it twice so maybe better make that two cups.

[madmike]

aren't you going to stand there and hold it for him freefall - that would be a service

[Scott]

I would second Ben's comments - I also found the location of the drinks points a little frustrating, although I was sufficiently thirsty that I detoured to visit both of them. Cracking event aside from that, though - thanks to all involved.

[RCB]

both drinks points today were rendered useless for M21E competitors through (lazy?) positioning. how hard is it to walk (or drive?) a couple of hundred metres further with some water containers and plastic cups, and leave them at a control?

rant over. apart from that, thank you very much for a good event!

The drinks points were accurately marked on the map so the option was there to either detour or miss them depending on persoanl circumstances. I visited the 2nd drinks point on my course but missed the first by 100 mtrs. Thanks TVOC for putting them out and manning them with volunteers. A really good event thanks.

[bendover]

'The drinks points were accurately marked on the map so the option was there to either detour or miss them depending on personal circumstances.'

when you're out racing for 17km, having to run further to get water isn't really an option.

i'm being a primadonna again, but there's a special box in the event details stating:

"Drinks Stations. There are two Drinks Stations. They will be marked on the map. One in the north of the area, and one in the south west, at approx 1/3 and 2/3 of all elite courses."

i doubt many of the top 20 M21E runners took a drink; the positioning of the drinks stations would have meant too much time lost. that's kind or ridiculous when the event details make out that there is a provision in place.

While some people would argue that the fittest athletes can compete without water, i doubt that many of us would turn down a cup of water if its convenient.

2nd rant over.

[AndyC]

aren't you going to stand there and hold it for him freefall - that would be a service

It will be me or my wife holding the cup in all likelihood - there is no secret in the concept that the drinks station at Ray Demense will be at a compulsory crossing point on the longer courses (after all Colin has taped 31 in total) and just off natural transit on some others (I've seen at least one of those transits and it might even be quicker to visit the drinks than to avoid them -depends on route choice).
I see that there are now 3 M21E runners -and I think 2 of them are eligible for the championship and over 700 runs in total for the weekend.

[Frustrated]

Totally agree with Bendover, the positioning of the drinks points was completely ridiculous. RCB - a competitive elite is never going to take a detour to a drinks point and shouldn't have to, drinks points are needed for classic races. Overall event was good though.

[graeme]

the positioning of the drinks points was completely ridiculous.

Picking up a drink was perfectly possible.
I had the same leg as Bendover on my old man course, and went via the drinks control. Ben was generally moving at the same speed as me, and on this leg was 9 seconds faster (20+ minutes: due mainly to my making in a 30sec error at the end, and partly to my stopping for a drink!). On course 4 picking up a drink on the previous leg was also an option: it's hard to see how it wasn't for 21E as well.

[Scott]

The second drinks point (in the SW) wasn't too bad, although it did require a small detour on the long leg to visit it - and perhaps a bigger detour if you had taken a different route to the one I chose.

The first one (in the NE) was a bit sillier - I (and the few other punter-elites I spoke to afterwards) took a route that ran along a nice grassy ride leading straight to the control. The choice was then between staying on the ride all the way and missing the drinks point, or detouring down a path to the drinks and then bashing through some grot on a bearing to get to the control/back to the ride. As I was thirsty (and knew an extra minute wouldn't really make the much difference to my time ) I made the detour, but when RouteGadget appears I'll be interested to see how many of the top runners did (or whether they did something else - eg. all cut straight through the forest via the drinks).

This is pretty minor nitpicking on what was otherwise an excellent and very well planned event. Still, I think it is a good general principle that the location of drinks points shouldn't affect competitors' route choice - ideally they should always be at a control, or on some other compulsory crossing point/run through (but, as JK 2009 taught us, never immediately before a control).

[Frustrated]

The first one was very possible but did affect route choice and I'm not sure it should. As for the second one, that was ridiculous, I doubt anyone in the top 20 went to it. It shouldn't really be seen as nitpicking, everyone agrees the event was good on the whole but I think it's important to have some constructive criticism. Now for some nitpicking - the prize giving was incredibly tedious and there was hardly anyone left to see the prizes awarded to the elites.

[Scott]

The second drinks point (in the SW) wasn't too bad

As for the second one, that was ridiculous, I doubt anyone in the top 20 went to it.

Looking again, I think you might be right - the second one is probably less convenient, depending on route choice. I went slightly right of straight on the long leg and crossed the valley by the northern pond, so was coming into 14 from the north anyway - the drinks point wasn't much of a detour for me. But for anyone who crossed the valley farther down (or went right the way around via assembly) it was much more out of the way.

[Scott]

The guidelines for WREs say:

Refreshment points are sometimes placed on legs which cross easily accessible linear features such as forest roads. They shall be marked on the map with the conventional symbol and shall be as accurately sited on the ground as if they were control sites. However, these points are much better placed at or very near to control sites so that competitors are certain to pass by them, whatever their route choices.

Of course, the situation is trickier if you are trying to accomodate non-elite courses at your drinks points as well. Still, this seems like sensible advice - perhaps something similar should be added somewhere in the BOF rules/guidelines (eg. the "Course Planning" appendix?).

[IanD]

Army event at Sidbury Hill today. Hottest day of the year so far. Due to "an incorrect setting in the course planning software. Courses were 50% longer than stated." Brown course advertised as 7.9km was actually 12.9km. Could have done with a drink on the way round, but didn't fancy the pond the tanks had been driving through!

Enjoyed it though, probably helped that I had been warned before I started that the courses were a little on the long side.