Are our Elite spoiled brats or prima donnas?

[frog]

I suspect with the increasing price of fuel we'll all start travelling less within the next couple of years. I think clubs will have to work together more in the future to co-ordinate several events over a weekend, and we'll lose some events. We're already starting to do that.
I agree re the not really needing more than 9 courses thing. Unless it's the JK or 6 days with several thousand entrants 28 seems very excessive. One of the nice things about the Scottish sprint champs is only having 4 courses, although course 2 is getting near its limit so if it becomes more popular in the future we may need to increase it to 5 courses.

[awk]

29/394 competitors are in the M/W20 - M/W35 (inclusive) range. Stuff the elites, it's the entire demographic that's lacking (as other have said / alluded to above)

This has been the case for a number of years now: I planned the Northern Champs on Attermire three or four years ago, and there was a similar paucity of M/W21s there. At the same time we were organising a series of summer evening sprint races which attracted rather more of that age group. Equally, our winter night street score series has been attracting rather more M/W21s than either the Midlands or the Northerns.

That's not because our events are super wonderful (although they are!) but because increasingly that is the sort of event that is attracting this particular age group, at least at sub-elite level (my apologies to mharky's brother, a regular competitor, who is, of course, anything but sub-elite!!).

In other words, all this is simply providing supporting evidence to the comments made above by LucyF and others about why M/W21s may not be there (overlong courses, difficulties of access outside city etc etc). The old model is knackered, and only suits the ageing bubble who still largely dictate how things are organised - and it could get worse if others take the same attitude that Freefall is threatening to do (everybody outside M55-65 having to take their chances), and BO continue to completely ignore this humungous elephant in the corner.

I'll bet there aren't only single digit M/W21s at the London race in September!

[Lucy.F.]

We are laying on a shuttle for uni students struggling with transport although I don't know how many we will be able to cater for and it was primarily for Belfast who are flying over.

This is because there are train stations near the events. If Sheffield are stuck perhaps some members could get the train and those with cars can shuttle between?

But if Sheffield (or any other uni) are really struggling and need help with one or two people give Simon Gardner a shout (BUCS Organiser) and see what he can suggest. We would obviously endeavour to do our best to help. (See EUOC Legends website for more details).

[Scott]

Oxford have managed to get a minibus (and, more importantly, a driver) for BUCS, but I believe both Bristol and Cambridge were unable to obtain vehicles and so are also flying/taking the train up.

[Mrs H]

Can I just point out that as someone who sits firmly in that ageing bubble and loves to dictate how things should be done I would like to think that I - and Awk and many others in that group - have the interests of the M/W21s very much at heart. I can't think of any thing more ghastly than turning the sport into some kind of Saga outing with not a young person in sight (although I know plenty who feel that way).

Kind offer Lucy - (but you know they'd rather walk than take it up ) I'm sure they'll make it!

[SeanC]

A minibus shuttle might be just the thing this event needs. That might get a few more of all ages to the event. Newcastle is a long long drive from the South East for example but an easy train ride. A fast train ride + saturday urban event + night out in Newcastle + the northern champs then a sleep on the train home sounds like a decent weekend*. Minibus hire looks like about £200 from a quick google.

Perhaps this is the sort of thing we should be looking into more instead of the lengthy work on area quality. event levels etc?

*I know, engineering works on Sunday.

[JEP]

A few pages ago there was a query about why was it a requirement to put on elite courses at National Events. There wasn't. ECG advised that as elite courses were unlikely to attract many entrants at certain times of the year there was no need to put them on. If there was special requirement for UK Cup races then this would be negotiated with the organiser. eg this year's UK Cup fimnal race in October will be a 60 minute mass start looped race aimed at elites.

But now we have "Area Championships". ECG was not consulted about the need for elite courses - I guess it was assumed that the advice for the old national events would carry over. Events Committtee or whoever is co-ordinating Area Champs seem to be insisting on Elite Courses. Bit of a waste of effort really - very few entrants at recent Midland Champs and entrants for Northen and Southern will also be sparse - for the reasons Mharky explained. ECG will discuss this again this year and will no doubt offer advice.

[Taybank]

To the Elite-
Such is the gulf between the British elite and top of the world calibre runners that they rarely threatening to make their mark at the World Championships - ie medal.
My fatherly advise is to get out and enjoy your orienteering week to week and month to month and if you make the top ten at the next WOC then get down to serious training for the following year.
You'll know you are getting there when you can go out week after week and tank the rest of the British elite without really trying.
Enjoy yourself. Time is flying.
Looking to the future -
Graeme has a point when he says that with funding drying up you may find that some day soon you (as an elite orienteer) will be trying to get the non-elite orienteering public to back your travel and entries to Cup and Championship events.
If they don't know you becasue they never or rarely see you at events then ........ well you know what I mean.
You' have to market yourselves........Mharky (whoever he is) can head the marketing team- I have always been struck by his affable, friendly attitude in his Nopesport musings.
Also- thinking of the long term future of the sport, up and coming orienteers gain interest from rubbing shoulders with the top people at events and improve their orienteering by running against them.
(A few years ago one of the top Scottish road runners turned coaching dogma on its head by racing and winning a half marathon every week of the summer season. By the way, he could run well inside 8:30 for 3000m)
Taybank

[Scott]

very few entrants at recent Midland Champs and entrants for Northen and Southern will also be sparse

The Southern Champs (with a couple of days to go until entries close) has 13 on W21E and 40 on M21E. I guess you can debate how many of those are "proper" elites, and UK Cup inclusion might have made a small difference, but the demand for long courses is there in some parts of the country (ie. nextdoor to London). But I agree, it does seem silly to require organisers to put 21E courses on at the area champs when and where there's little demand for it.

[madmike]

Bit of a waste of effort really - very few entrants at recent Midland Champs and entrants for Northen and Southern will also be sparse - for the reasons Mharky explained. ECG will discuss this again this year and will no doubt offer advice.

Not quite right JEP: already 40 men entered on 21E at Southern Champs

Edit: bother Scott types quicker

[mharky]

Although I said the decisions are made by old men on committees, it seems the majority of these are young at heart with the desire to improve orienteering for everyone in the UK.

It's just a shame that some people decide to ignore the future old men of our sport, or get angry because we have better things to do than go to the Northern Championships.

[mharky]

You' have to market yourselves........Mharky (whoever he is) can head the marketing team

My name is Andy Monro, you believe.

As I remember it, Per was not working on his own at Tayside 2009. A lot of the time we were listening to the British commentators - Andy Monro et al - I believe. They were and are every bit as good and they know their British orienteering. They have done the British champs and JK on numerous occasions.

I'm not really sure why you think I should market the national team that I am not a member of, but I'll definitely think about it.

I thought that elite orienteers in Scotland were well integrated into the wider orienteering community. Perhaps you have different perceptions Taybank, whoever YOU are.

[frog]

Presume Taybank is one of ours. Is that you Dave P?

[rocky]

My fatherly advise is to get out and enjoy your orienteering week to week and month to month and if you make the top ten at the next WOC then get down to serious training for the following year.

That's hilarious. Thanks Bill for giving me a good giggle.

[frog]

Aha, he was my other contender, but I was misled by the offer to put out controls at Balkello for the BU champs as Dave P was trying to round up helpers.
Should have guessed by the provocative tone. Bill likes a fight!
I thought Mharky was one of the EUOC guys though so was wrong there.