Midland Champs

[EddieH]

[quote]I think that the only thing that was "wrong" was the geographical location[/quote]

In that case we'd better abandon putting on anything other than level C and D events as clearly our geographical location is wrong up here (where incidentally the sun has typically shone nearly all this week).

I can't share this view and we are expecting adecent entry for the level B and C Moray Mix.

[Clive Coles]

If only.... we had another Sherringham popping up near to the M1 we might be able to oblige every 4 years when it is EA's turn to stage the Midland Championships. Sadly an unlikely event that none of us are likely to be able to manage. That requires a significant act of God if you still want contours.

If you want the Area Championships to be put on in the region to which it relates , you should IMO stage it on the best area that supports a Classic distance race. It's a shame Sherringham is so far to the north of our association footprint ~ it's a long way for many of us as well.

Take your earlier point though AWK ~ if urban races are still flavour of the month in 4 years time perhaps an Urban event on the Saturday would be a good idea.

[Mrs H]

I
If you want the Area Championships to be put on in the region to which it relates .

You mean holding the Midland Champs in the Midlands?

[EddieH]

Traditionally the Midland[b]s[/b] Championships rotated around 4 regions including Wales.

[awk]

In that case we'd better abandon putting on anything other than level C and D events as clearly our geographical location is wrong up here (where incidentally the sun has typically shone nearly all this week). I can't share this view and we are expecting adecent entry for the level B and C Moray Mix.

Well - how else would you explain the lower numbers, other than geographical location relative to centres of orienteering population and perception of the terrain?

What do you think constitutes a decent entry?

You mean holding the Midland Champs in the Midlands?

Depends what you mean by Midlands. In orienteering terms, the Midlands has pretty much always been EAOA, EMOA and WMOA. Whilst it has also been in Wales in the past, it looks as if the Welsh Champs is picking up in stature.

If you want the Area Championships to be put on in the region to which it relates , you should IMO stage it on the best area that supports a Classic distance race. It's a shame Sherringham is so far to the north of our association footprint ~ it's a long way for many of us as well.

I agree Clive. I wasn't arguing against the Midlands being at Sheringham, simply trying to answer the discussion point as to why it was a smaller event, and indeed looking at implications of what I think are wider trends. Personally, as stated earlier in the thread, we thought it was worth the journey. Not many other areas in Norfolk would have attracted us that distance!

[King Penguin]

Blatent plug warning -
2012 Midlands Champs is about 15 km NW of Hereford and there should be a Saturday event (en route for most ....)

[EddieH]

I think there is another factor here.

The area championships lost their status in people's minds when national events arrived and area champs became parochial affairs. BOF have attempted to bring this back by awarding them level A status which is fine. However from many punters point of view this has no perceivable benefit - prices generally even higher and for many bsing forced into a specific age class is not a benefit. Additionally there are numerous good quality local events for most people nowadays.

With so many events appealing to people's travel weekends I suspect the area champs will struggle to have the status the BOF would lke in people's minds. That is why I think it imperative that the area champs are automatically part of the various cups or the new combined one, because if one is left out it will immediately be treated as inferior to the others.

[greywolf]

I think that the only thing that was "wrong" was the geographical location: Sheringham is a long way from the centres of orienteering population.

Nope, don't think that's the whole story by any means...and i know these things are relative, but Sheringham is hardly Ultima Thule, it's what, c. 150 miles from Sheffield, Birmingham, London?

What do you think constitutes a decent entry?

That's relative too, but just over 400 for a National event that is supposed to be one of the highlights of the season is pretty poor - we've had well over 300 for a "local" event in Culbin, which really is remote.

The other striking thing about the entry was the age distribution - as far as I can see more than half the male competitors were M55 or older - is this indicative of the younger generations being more choosy, or of Masters Cup branding boosting what would have been an even poorer entry?

As far as competitors in some classes not earning ranking points, this could have been partially avoided by combining more classes on fewer courses - it's not like the course lengths in the guidelines were adhered to strictly anyway.

That still leaves the problem of having only half a dozen on the men's elite course. There's definitely still a market for full length M21E courses - the Trossachs, Culbin, and the upcoming Hambledon race bear that out, but I think (and i'm guessing because i'm not the sort of nutter who does that sort of race ) that those who do are likely to be picky - wanting to go to the best terrain, and only a few a year.

There's too many important (or trying to be important) races crammed into a few months (10 of the 15 UK cup races in 10 weeks) in the spring - few can do them all and Sheringham was always likely to be one that many passed on.

[greywolf]

wheres that delete button

[Scott]

i know these things are relative, but Sheringham is hardly Ultima Thule, it's what, c. 150 miles from Sheffield, Birmingham, London?

To be fair, it is a pretty long drive from any of those - equivalent to London-Leeds, Birmingham-Newcastle or Sheffield-Dumfries.

Taking up your point about age distributions, with three days to go until entries close the Northern Champs currently has a total across all courses of two W21s and no M21s (although hopefully some will come in over the next few days).

[greywolf]

Yep, or from here to Stirling or Edinburgh...

Bottom line I think is that people will travel, if they perceive the event as "special" (terrain, competition, etc) ....and Level A status and /or Midlands Champs does not mark an event out as such, especially in a congested "season"

[awk]

I'd agree with what you say about the status of the events. They will need time to build up as an incentive to travel, and, as you say, will need inclusion in the various competitions to help them on the way.

Having said that, I think the move in that direction is already happening. There were 420-odd runners there last weekend. That's 50%+ higher than other recent high profile events in EAOA (which were further south). So, I think we're already seeing the greater status kicking in. It just didn't produce the numbers that some might have been expecting.

[AlanB]

i know these things are relative, but Sheringham is hardly Ultima Thule, it's what, c. 150 miles from Sheffield, Birmingham, London?

To be fair, it is a pretty long drive from any of those - equivalent to London-Leeds, Birmingham-Newcastle or Sheffield-Dumfries.

Taking up your point about age distributions, with three days to go until entries close the Northern Champs currently has a total across all courses of two W21s and no M21s (although hopefully some will come in over the next few days).

Er, so if I entered the M21, as it stands I would become Northern Champion (I was born in Lancashire)?

note. I would be the slowest M21 champion in the world history of orienteering - ever!

[Gnitworp]

Go for it - fill your sideboard! Gavin Clegg (M55) is currently M21L Southern Night Champion (1st out of 1) although he's not particularly slow (BOF Ranked 84th)

[Oldman]

... Sheringham is hardly Ultima Thule, it's what, c. 150 miles from Sheffield, Birmingham, London?

150 miles costs about £24 (£48 if 150 each way): that's a lot for most of us, especially the retired ones living on fixed, inflation-eroded pensions.