Level B proposals for 2011

[70plus]

The event 'rejected recently' by Red Adder illustrates the point I was trying to make above. Pete.owens and I have discussed the issue of principle more than once; it is not impossible to describe a hierarchy of event levels and eventually reach some sort of compromise acceptable at an AGM. In the real world (which is very different in mid-England and mid-Scotland) clubs want to stage frequent events (for various reasons, one of which may be to generate funds); each club has a pretty fixed repertoire of terrain available; regions (and hence clubs) ask, or are asked, to take turns in providing level A and B events; those badgings may be the most significant factor many orienteers use in choosing where to compete. As Red Adder describes, we are likely to see events in level B which do not strictly meet the guidelines.

I suspect there may be several clubs which can only offer B-standard 'terrain' at an urban or sprint race. There may be accusations of unfair discrimination until those races are more commonplace?

[SeanC]

I have a friend who is the sort who we should be appealing to. He does the OMM and other mountain marathons, runs 3 times a week and does lots of outdoor challenge type stuff (eg. the Great East Swim, London to Paris bike ride etc). He's been Orienteering a few times but isn't interested in local Orienteering (he says it's too infrequent for an occasional activity and not exciting enough to knock other things off his calendar). However when I talked about the TioMila and Jukola he was pretty keen. He liked the sound of the London City race and the Harvesters as well. For him quality = buzz. The quality of the terrain is not very important. Quality of terrain (if definable) is probably more important to experienced Orienteers who's main/only sport is orienteering, and maybe the event buzz less so.

I'm not sure how this helps the debate (buzz is even less measurable than quality!), except that there's definately a huge untapped market of people like my friend who could go to big/high quality/level A B etc events, and then might get the O bug and then become more involved with Orienteering at a local level (if just as training for the big events).

[Clive Coles]

I suspect there may be several clubs which can only offer B-standard 'terrain' at an urban or sprint race.

Yes ~ Over here in the east there are probobly only one or two areas which has the complex terrain suitable for classic distance level B cross country competitions. But with good planning our forests can support "quality" level B middle distance, relay and sprint events.

We mustn't however fudge the rules for level B (like BOF tried to do with old level 2) just so that every region can provide top flight classic distance competitions. Last time around the Implementation Group ducked the issue of quality. They instead introduced a tick box concept listing the assembly area facilities that had to be provided to justify a level 2 event. They then compromised over the need for grade 2 controllers at level 2 events. When they realised clubs were not upgrading events to L2 they tried to instruct regions to upgrade their regional leagues to level 2.

So don't lets make the same mistakes ~ let the Level B events live up to the standards that the rules define. There will be regional differences ~ some regions will stage more level B events than others. But let us do what we are best at ~ events that suit the terrain we have at our disposal and our members needs.

[EddieH]

I have just searched for the date of Edinburgh City race on the BOF database by selecting Scotland and Regional.

I note it is registered as a local event, which makes one wonder what hope BOF have of achieving their objectives with the new 4 level is Scottish clubs continue to put such events in the new level D category. Personally I think it a huge mistake from Scottish clubs as it makes the events less visible (searching without the glut of genuinely local stuff)) and whatever the committees might think there are people that are motivated by ranking points.

However in this case, Edinburgh City is proposed as the opening event for next year's inaugural veteran cup. I cannot see how this is compatible with it being a local event.

[Sunlit Forres]

I note it is registered as a local event, which makes one wonder what hope BOF have of achieving their objectives with the new 4 level is Scottish clubs continue to put such events in the new level D category.

Eddie - the problems is that as a fixtures sec you can only register an event as a local event. To get it upgraded you have to contact the Association Fixtures Sec. In this case I suspect the event was registered and the additional task of requesting the upgrade got missed.

Ref Sean C's point about attracting new people in to the sport via the Buzz Factor, I do sometimes wonder whether we're trying to adapt orienteering to make it more appealing to the masses at the expense of watering down the sport in its current form. I personally think that the plethora of truly local events that have sprung up recently can only be a good thing, and if they don't attract Sean's friend then so what.

[Spookster]

I have just searched for the date of Edinburgh City race on the BOF database by selecting Scotland and Regional.

I note it is registered as a local event, which makes one wonder what hope BOF have of achieving their objectives with the new 4 level is Scottish clubs continue to put such events in the new level D category. Personally I think it a huge mistake from Scottish clubs as it makes the events less visible (searching without the glut of genuinely local stuff)) and whatever the committees might think there are people that are motivated by ranking points.

However in this case, Edinburgh City is proposed as the opening event for next year's inaugural veteran cup. I cannot see how this is compatible with it being a local event.

Eddie,

The fixtures are going through a transition from the 3-level to the 4-level system. Mike Cope and Regional Fixtures secretaries have been busy agreeing a change process, for re-grading and scheduling of events, and at some point the online registration system and therefore the list of events you can search will change. Although Edinburgh is currently registered as Local, it will show as B, C or D when the system switches over. It would be surprising (and disappointing) if it was a D, as clearly the Edinburgh weekend of events is intended to be something worth travelling to! I expect it will either be a C, or possibly a B. Both of these are within the ranking system.

[SeanC]

Sunlit Forres ... Yes I agree local events are the way forward, unfortunately they are not that frequent in his area.

He's not what I'd call the masses since he is an OMM regular and has done a few orienteering events. There's a minority of big events (such as the Harvesters, London City Race), that are going to appeal to people like him and it's probably a question of marketing rather than significant changes... maybe the same marketing that would appeal to adventure racers?

Anyway I'll see if he'll do the Harvesters, which is an easier sell now I can guarentee him a run (ad hoc teams allowed on A course).

Edit: Another thought is that people such as my friend are more likely to find some buzz from local events in NE Scotland than in the equivalent event in his region down south. Some dramatic Scottish forest or Smelly Welly Country Park ?

[Sunlit Forres]

I agree with Sean about marketing (which has been discussed in another thread a while ago).

One thing that occurred to me is that some of these urban races are now recurring every year - same time same place. I know we already have established annual fixtures that rotate areas (eg November Classic, October Oddyssey etc) but I wonder if some clubs might benefit from putting lesser-scale annual events at the same venue each year. In Moravian's case, we've had an annual fixture at Darnaway in February since time immemorial; it's often our biggest event of the year despite being in the same place every time. We're doing a similar thing with some of our monthly Saturday League races. Road running seems to thrive on established local calendars, so while clubs obviously do need to rotate areas, I reckon it's worth clubs considering basing their season around a selection of 'regular' fixtures/venues.

We're now treating Darnaway as a regional event with pre-entries and ranking points, and marketing it as "Darnaway 2011" rather than just a plain old Moravian Colour Coded Event. The level of organisation is exactly the same. The success of our Moray Mix format 2 years ago has prompted us to repeat the event this June using the same "marketing" approach and I wholeheartedly agree that the right kind of marketing pays dividends every time.

[EddieH]

We have loads of local events up here which are very popular - Yes some are in forests you'd kill for, but many are in park type terrain and they are very popular. (Mind you our soil doesn't resonate with Smelly Welly.)

I couldn't agree more about the great value of true local events, but it does seem logical to increase the visibility of bigger events by grading them higher than local. I know about the local events around here through club publicity. Therefore it seems logical to search over a wider area without the plethora of remote local events that I have no likelihood of being interested in. Seems logical to me.

[70plus]

Regular recurring events (as at Darnaway) - yes, they can certainly be popular. Deeside (Cheshire) has staged a Sandstone Trail Race every autumn for well over 20 years, and numbers have still to be restricted to 150 in each of two classes. Although it is staged by an O-club, it is more popular with running clubs as no 'orienteering' is involved. However those clubs have declined a suggestion that they might organise the race ...

[Sunlit Forres]

Like Deeside, we've got on the the trail running bandwagon too. We stage the Moray Forest Runs Series in conjunction with some local village halls who raise funds through the events. The series consists of 4 fortnightly trail runs in Culbin, Roseisle, Quarrelwood (Elgin) and Monaughty (near Elgin) in the spring/summer. They've proved incredibly popular with up to 300 turning out. We get quite a few of our own club members taking part since we use them as club training nights, but the vast majority of runners are from running clubs or are independents. Scott Fraser, incidentally, won the last of the 2009 series setting a new record and beating the nearest challenger by a quarter of a mile!This did the credibility of orienteers no harm whatsoever!

We use the opportunities to publicise orienteering with club banners and notices of events, and although it doesn't seem to attract many new runners to our mainstream events, what it does do is get the club noticed, and the local running fraternity have no doubt that we're a serious athletic club, not just a bunch of folk with rucksacs wandering round the woods.

[binman]

Getting back to the original topic of this thread (albeit fascinated by the deviations) - the second post (from Homer) indicated the guideline was soon to be published. Not being familiar with BOF committee dates, can anyone give an idea of when we're likely to get the final document?

[Knee Deep Mud!]

Well, I'm now totally confused about the new structure after reading the following on the BOF website:

British Orienteering Championships - Individual...........Level B

and

British Orienteering Championships - Relay...........Level B

If even BOF now think the British Championships are only a second rate event, there really is no hope for the sport.

[smf]

Well, I'm now totally confused about the new structure after reading the following on the BOF website:

British Orienteering Championships - Individual...........Level B

and

British Orienteering Championships - Relay...........Level B

If even BOF now think the British Championships are only a second rate event, there really is no hope for the sport.

Email received today,

Dear Association/Club Fixtures Secretary

A change will be made today to the website to accommodated the 4 tier event structure. All registered events will be re-categorised as follows:

Current Local Events – Level D
Current Regional Events – Level C
Current National Events – Level B

The National and Association Fixtures Secretaries will then change any Level B events that need re-categorising to Level A or Level C.

An unfortunate knock on effect of this will be that all 2008/2009 finished events will be re-categorised in line with the above.

[Clive Coles]

Just be patient and don't jump to conclusions. We are in a transitional implementation phase. I understand there are more components to be delivered ( and a few corrections) before the cut over is finished.