Lakes 5 Days 2010

[Paul Frost]

I hope you weren't being serious Paul? I'm not sure individual organisers or clubs can start banning people from BOF events just because they voice there opinion! You're on a very slippery slop there.

You may not have seen the original post by "youngladdie", it was completely different to the edited one that now shows. I only quoted a small section from the original.

I would like to think that the first post was made in frustration and without any thought, and that on reflection they realised that they had gone too far and so retracted their comments. In which case an apology would have been a better solution than just removing the offensive comments.

My thoughts of banning someone was based on the fact that it showed no respect to those that give up their own time for the benefit of others, without whom this sport could not exist.

[andy]

having read the original comment I didn't think it was that bad, yes made in the 'heat of the moment' but not 'bannable'

Anyway, I think youngladdie raised a valid point, in that the overall organising team should never have let it get to the stage it got to. Having helped at these big events (i.e. S6D) in the past you have to sometimes forget some good areas in order to get decent facilities. take the recent WOC finals as an example (ok, so arena rather than car park but you get the idea)

[Electrocuted]

I'm just back from the Lakes 5, having only been able to enter 3 days. Unfortunately, with day 3 being moved to the rest day it was brought down to 2 days as even if it could have gone ahead today we couldn't have taken part. Never mind, we bagged a couple of marilyns on the way north yesterday.

I would first like to say that I enjoyed the two days I attended. I really feel for the organisers and planners of day 3 - it must be fairly gut wrenching to spend all that time planning/preparing for a big event for it not to go ahead.

Day 1 had some really tricky courses out in the open and I made a complete mess of my course! I didn't really mind the walk to the start and walk back from the finish but it would have been fairly hard going for little ones/older competitors.

The walk to and from the assembly field on day 2 was over flat terrain so although 2.5km didn't really take that long. I liked the club tents being up high as it was easy to see people on the run in.

Would it have been possible to switch day 3 with another day? - say, run day 4 or 5 instead and hope it dried up by the end of the week? I know they have done this with the scottish 6 day in the past.

One other point - I know the Lakes 5 were not in control of the campsite, but I think that the one at Coniston Hall was the worst campsite I have ever stayed in. The groups area had one small toilet block where they didn't even supply toilet paper, no electricity, cold water only and the shower block was a long walk away and you had to pay for showers. The campsite had terrible drainage and flooded in several places. And all this for £8 a night per person which is, I think, the most expensive campsite I have ever stayed in.

[youngladdie]

I do apologise to any organiser, official or helper that may feel displeased at my comments; but I do stand by them and the reasoning, and feel my points are valid and using my right to free speech and voice my opinion like everyone else is.

It has been pointed out that:
"We knew in the event of heavy rain that the event would be cancelled"
"August is the wettest month of the year" (in the wettest part of England)...
I am sorry, but if someone knew it would, not might, be cancelled in the very likely event of rain; and had no alternative parking then why on earth was it considered?
It seems it will be nice and sunny and dry until the weekend - I am sure it could have been changed to Friday; or let people park where they choose and walk/cycle/bus themselves to the event?

[SeanC]

Seems quite a good idea to have one multi-day event "hard-core", ie the lakes and one more suitable for families (ie the White Rose). Families have done OK this year with the JK being next to the coast, also the Tamar Triple. Speaking as one of a part orienteering family - location is much more important for me than the orienteering - so events near beaches and holiday resorts score well. I suspect it's a trend to see less families where everyone goes orienteering - and more families like my own where one or two do orienteering and the rest wont go except very occasionally. Also some orienteering families will have older juniors where the terrain is more important.

A good local scene is the way to get more families with young children into orienteering - more local events, more string courses, more publicity etc etc.

[deebee]

Whilst not wishing to get into an argument with anyone, can I point out a few of the facts of life about Orienteering in the Lake District. First, there is a body of opinion both in Orienteering and in other organisations (Lake District National Park, Friends of the Lake District, perhaps even United Utilities the owners of the parking field) that we should not be holding a large scale multi day Orienteering event in August, the height of the visitor season. Consequently, some members of these organisations are not as enthusiastic about finding solutions to problems as we would be.
Secondly, look around and see how many flattish fields there are, especially in the North Lakes, that will hold 1500 cars. Parking is a problem, I haven't been privvy to any of the negotiations for the Harrop Tarn parking but the road which was to have been the 'wet weather parking' has been the subject of many column inches in the local press in the past few weeks. There are plans afoot to change its designation and close part of it to vehicles, I suspect if it hadn't been in the public eye then we would have been able to park there without much hassle.
And finally, the suggestion that competitors find their own parking and make their own way there. The nearest 'supermarket' size car park is in Keswick and the buses run about every two hours. Either that or block up every gateway, layby and passing place for five miles in all directions. Surely not the impression we want to leave behind - leaving those of us who live and work here to argue the case for multi-day Orienteering from a drastically weakened position.

[redkite]

SeanC said

location is much more important for me than the orienteering - so events near beaches and holiday resorts score well.

Croeso 2012 will be based in Aberystwyth with plenty of beaches, Donkey rides, steam trains and sandcastles. Not to mention a few great new orienteering areas

[awk]

Further to deebee's comments, I do think that people have also completely forgotten that one of the big issues in the Lake District when it comes to terrain is summer vegetation. Long walks, remote assemblies and very limited parking are inevitable if one is to get 5 days of anything other than a fight with bracken et al. You pays your money and you takes your choice - and one option for the NWOA is of course not to put it on (and I know that there's been a lot of thought in the past about this event).

Youngladdie - if you feel so strongly that you have a right to say what you said (and, of course, with rights come responsibilities) and that you stand by it all, why did you delete so much of it?

[graeme]

I wonder why there are more people in the 70+ age group running than kids, despite it being the school holidays??

Creoso sounds great, but will it be in our school holidays?

this really is an adult event.

We gave up on the lakes while James was too young - long walks to the split starts, then later the when kid's course was sometimes a long walk in a totally different direction - just not fun.

No criticism intended, they're doing what they can with the areas they have. But it would be nice to know what the walks to start are likely to be before we enter, because it does make a difference. If we knew when there weren't going to be long walks, then we'd have come.

[Becks]

I hope familyO never goes to the ORingen if they think a 2.3km walk to the start is long... it was a good few years ago that I went, but the walk was almost 6km!

[SeanC]

BOF website says Croeso 2012 is 25th - 28th July. Some orienteering, some candy floss and a few hours in the Aber public shelter looks good before some event that's going on in London.

[familyO]

I hope familyO never goes to the ORingen if they think a 2.3km walk to the start is long... it was a good few years ago that I went, but the walk was almost 6km!

I was basing my opinions on that of Oringen and other major Scando events. The 2-3km walk to the start isn't a problem, but the kids courses are rarely that far to the start, plus there will be water stations dotted around the forest. The event centre will 99% of the time be the finish, so as soon as you run in, download you can swap over parenting duties. There will be a creche and at all major events showers. You might have to walk to the event centre, but once you there you are at the heart of the day's activties.

Granted there are major differences in the topography / geography that make this style of event more possible in some places than others. I was merely commenting on the fact that a 5 day orienteering event, held in peak summer over the school holidays is actually not that geared towards kids, or families with non running toddlers (ie 1-4 yr olds).

And finally... yes I have planned and organised events, hence the anonymous username, but I do feel that as a family runner I am banging my head against the wall at times. We bleat on about low numbers of junior runners, recruitment & retention, create some great evening and school initatives, then make major events quite hard to attend as a family!!

[Becks]

It is true that the O Ringen creche makes a huge amount of difference, but as Mrs H found out a couple of years ago, the legal requirements to run one over here are not financially possible within your average British multi day event. It's a shame as this is one thing that would massively help a "non family" multi day turn into a family one - less stress for the parents about getting back from huge walks and tough courses in time for split starts and such.

[mykind]

[quote="RJ"]Lots of options were considered for alternate parking.... but we knew that heavy rain would lead to cancellation. The minor road on the west of Thirlmere was originally seen as a very good alternative, but the police pointed out that that would be needed if they had to close the A591 for any reason.

There is a proposal to close the minor road to motorised traffic in the near future. This is in response to some pressure group who want it as a traffic free cycle route ( although it's almost traffic free anyway). I don't recall Cumbria police getting up on their hind legs and protesting about this proposal because of needing the road if the A591 were to be closed for any reason. in fact they seemed quite sanguine about sending traffic round by kirkstone pass (which will be interesting in February). I suspect it's just easier to say "no" rather than do the helpful thing and actually consider how likely it is that the A591will be closed alongside Thirlmere. I can see no valid reason to disallow the use of the minor road.

[Blanka]

but as Mrs H found out a couple of years ago, the legal requirements to run one over here are not financially possible within your average British multi day event.

I think if you do it on a friend helps a friend basis, i.e. the club organising the event says they will put on a creche with a couple of adults around but ultimately it is your responsibility if something happens so the organising club can't be sued then it would work. It's a bit like teenagers babysitting for their friends. I think the problem is more that parents don't *want* to leave their children with others, even if they're friends/O acquaintances, which hampers any efforts to put on a creche anywhere.