Lakes 5 Days 2010

[youngladdie]

Sunday afternoon in the gloriously sunny Lake District as Day 1 finishes at Swindale. A long walk uphill to the start was worth the unexpectedly good fell running on Swindale - mostly fast grassland, and just a few damp marshes but probably drier than usual. An excellent start to the week, and thanks to the clubs involved. Hopefully the weather will stay kind, and any rain wont prevent parking problems / possible cancellation of Day 3 at the lovely Harrop Tarn...

[DJM]

Harrop Tarn now moved to Wednesday according to flash news on the event website:

The heavy rain today has made the car park field very wet and more rain is forecast tonight. The decision has been made to move Day 3 to Wednesday.

The rest day is now Tuesday 24th August
The Day 3 competition at Harrop Tarn will now be on Wednesday 25th August.

[RJ]

Fortunately it looks like Wednesday will be the better day weatherwise. Fingers crossed. I think you will all appreciate when you park in the field on Wednesday just how big a problem the parking for Harrop Tarn is!

With larger vehicles having to park separately it is a nightmare for the organising team. I know that the organiser himself is unlikely to get any peace of mind until Wednesday evening! There is no contingency parking available..... so it is an all or nothing situation!

[usuallylast]

the Harrop Tarn event is now cancelled according to the website - bad news for competitors, and for those who have put in all the hours of graft involved in hosting it

[youngladdie]

Very sad news indeed that Day 3, Harrop tarn IS cancelled.
Some points to consider...
But it shouldnt have had to be cancelled basically due to rain, after all this is the wettest part of England!
It seems the main excuse / reason is that damage to the field would cause pollution! Do they mean mud? the same as streams wash down into the reservoir anyway? and I think it would take a lot to pollute the 9000 million gallons of Thirlmere. Either the field is accessible, or not.

[Red Adder]

I am alone in finding youngladdie's comment very unhelpful - or is it his subtle way of volunteering to plan/organise at the next 5 days, including provision (at his own personal expense ?) a complete alternate event should circumstances on the day dictate ?

Having been heavily involved in a couple of events that were either cancelled or severly curtailed by the weather I understand the disappointment felt by organisers and competitors alike and offer you my sympathy.

[Paul Frost]

Arranging distant parking with bussing to the event (at BOF's expense). (Buses could have been provisionally booked as a precaution in the 'un'likely event of rain).

Not sure why BOF should pay?

We should not really feel sorry for any helpers/organiser or planner who has spent all their own time - which they willingly volunteered to do - as the competitors have paid entry fees, and taken valuable holiday time off work to be there...

I would like to think that "youngladdie" is alone in this view, and that all orienteers have the greatest respect for those that give up their own time as a planners, organisers, controllers etc. so that others can participate in this sport.

If I knew the identity of "youngladdie" I think I would consider banning them from entering any event that I was organising. The sport doesn't need participants that badly that we have to put up with this level of disrespect.

[RJ]

Lots of options were considered for alternate parking.... but we knew that heavy rain would lead to cancellation. The minor road on the west of Thirlmere was originally seen as a very good alternative, but the police pointed out that that would be needed if they had to close the A591 for any reason.

There is quite a bit of other 'parking' but for the numbers involved.... just not a realistic option. And crossing the A591 at that point where it narrows would have been very dangerous.

Parking elsewhere and bussing would be a nightmare. The cost of booking coaches and then not using them would have been considerable.

The Lake District has many small access roads to a lot of the really good terrain that we all enjoy when the Cumbrian clubs put them on. But the Lakes5 has a scale that makes it a bit of an unmanageable beast.

We will get back onto Harrop to enjoy those courses and the newly mapped extension. Perhaps we will try May.... one of the driest months of the year!.... rather than August, which is one of the wettest! I was just grateful that that weather system which is due to sweep across southern England tomorrow is staying well south of us. Imagine if the jet stream had shifted everything 500 miles north!

Youngladdie's comments, giving him the benefit of the doubt, were perhaps poorly phrased.... and written with an element of frustration at not being able to orienteer on Harrop. But I can let him know that the organising team, and in particular the planners are devastated that you won't enjoy their labours. But they know we'll get another chance.... soon!

[oldboy]

Amazed at young laddie comments as a planner over many years you expect comments from some competitors on your courses, being rubbish, badly planned etc but hope that the average orienteer appreciates the time you have spent helping with the event. Yes you do volunteer but the last large event I planned due to distance from event took 3 weeks of my hard earned holiday to spend time in the forest over the 18 months before the event. The competitor will be upset an event has been cancelled but not as much as the main officials and I guess the competitor is still on holiday in the lakes.

[OverShot]

Great shame about Day 3. Sorry the organsing team & planners never had the chance to put it all into place. (They should just ignore the odd poorly phrased comments - even half way in this has been a good couple of days for us).

Days 1 and 2 were excellent and I am sure Days 4 and 5 will be equally as good come rain or shine. Well done to the Lakes team.

Despite the weather (tipping it down when I ran late on Day 2) I found Guards Wood & Tarns Hows Woods tough and a real challenge (reminded me of JK '10 individual Day 1 - ie very wet underfootand a over t quite a bit). It was a good walk in from car park but worth it even in the rain. There we more dnfs on my course on Day 2 than Day 1 - a weather factor I suspect rather than a terrain/planning thing.

[buzz]

With parking and braken to cope with the Lakes 5 days is always going to find it difficult to use the best terrain. This years event seems to have focussed more on the races and good quality orienteering with Harrop Tarn on the menu and long walks from available car parks to the start/finish or assembly area each day.

The lack of White courses tends to upset the family groups and the loss of probably the best technical day in Harrop Tarn will upset those who value quality orienteering, but personally I would rather the organisers followed this year's model and went for the best areas they can find even if it means that a lack of contingency leaves one or two days at risk.

An alternative approach is taken by the White Rose where the emphasis is very much on the event and family orienteering. Both great events but with different focus.

[buzz]

If I knew the identity of "youngladdie" I think I would consider banning them from entering any event that I was organising. The sport doesn't need participants that badly that we have to put up with this level of disrespect.

I hope you weren't being serious Paul? I'm not sure individual organisers or clubs can start banning people from BOF events just because they voice there opinion! You're on a very slippery slop there.

[andypat]

Agree with Paul that people should take responsibility when voicing their opinions whether face to face or on here. Youngladdie doesnt seem to bothered who he (or she) upsets with his/her comments, but shooting off like he does could make the difference between some volunteers throwing in the towel or not.

I do think clubs should be able to "withdraw" their services from people in certain circumstances, although I havent witnessed anything I'd put in that category yet.

[ryeland of doom]

Agree with Buzz - While the comments were a little disrespectful and inconsiderate to the poor folk who's hard work at Harrop was wasted, some of the responses were completely over the top. Banning folk? What!

Having once attended a badge event at Harrop Tarn, I appreciate the problems with parking, and it is obvious that no attention has been taken by the poster to the loss of grazing due to ploughing up by vehicles as well as other problems. Also while he may have lost a day, a lot of us have lost the whole event because of its timing. Why not just point out the deficiencies in his argument rather than go over the top with the now unfashionable control agenda.
Hope the weather holds up and the remaining days go well. And although unable to compete myself (grrrr!), many thanks to all involved.

[familyO]

Buzz raises a very good point about the balance between being very 'race' orientated and family led event. So far this has clearly been all about keeping the M/F21 or the M/F50+ happy.

day1 the walk to the courses were long and the start and finish were a fair distance apart, meaning that even with split starts it's a challenge to both run. Plus for either junior runners or those very mature orienteers, the walk to the start and from the finish was probably twice the length of their O course. 2/3km each way is a long way on little or old legs.

Day2 was getting there, an O event in the UK with the finish actually at the event centre, which makes split starts many times easier. It could have been enhanced by having the club tents either side of the finish funnel though, a chance for club to cheer junior runners in?? Us adults aren't bothered, but it's great for the little ones to be cheered in regardless of how good or bad their run was. Long term retention of our younger runners is probably enjoyment / fulfillment based??

Day4 is also looking fairly unfriendly to families, a field with restricted access times long walks to the start, probably not buggy friendly (easier to meet mid way to speed up split starts) up through the forest looking on the OS map. Unless you risk it on the road for a long zigzig walk up to the kit dump area.

I think the locations are great for hard O, great courses so far, but this really is an adult event. I wonder why there are more people in the 70+ age group running than kids, despite it being the school holidays??

Day3 is just unfortunate, that's the breaks with the weather and despite the fact there was always a risk, I can see why the team wanted to try and show off this great area. Hopefully everyone can come back and support them with a big attendance at Harrop tarn sometime next year.