BOC & BRC 2010.

[awk]

Secondly, is it common policy at BOC and JK relays that those who manage to achieve podium positions on the Ad-Hoc courses aren't awarded medals when all the other relay classes are?

Yes, it has always been standard policy, as our junior adhoc team found out a few years ago. The reason is that it is just that - the adhoc class, not a championship class. They are the only classes in which runners from different clubs can run together.

The irony is that in some years the junior ad hoc has, in fact, been the most competitive junior relay class - it was certainly the biggest this year, and has always indicated to me that the classes for juniors aren't right at the BRC.

Personally, I think this is run the wrong way. The number of teams made up of people from different clubs is very small. The class is primarily made up of teams of people from the same club who don't comfortably fit into other classes (this is true for quite a lot of club juniors!). Once upon a time, there used to be a handicap class - where teams received a handicap depending on the age and gender of their team members, and first leg runners were set off at staggered intervals, with the team with first leg 3 runner across the line the winner. It was great fun, and far more interesting than the adhoc - it certainly led me to running in some interesting combination teams. I think they should reinstate that!

Incidentally, this is a BOF policy, nothing to do with the organisers.

[Gross]

Map: vegetation had obviously not been recently remapped (despite note of 2009/10 revision) some tracks were wrongly positioned, contours in quarry were distinctly dubious in parts. Apart from that the main spur gully shapes were OK and the white forest was pretty runnable.

Jon Bhoy.... a conversation in waiting

[Scott]

Very, very enjoyable weekend - thanks to all involved. The planning on Saturday was particularly good, and I thought that the atmosphere in the assembly area was brilliant - one of the best I have been to.

I agree that the map was a bit odd in places, but it didn't affect my enjoyment of my run. The mapping of paths and vegetation in the flat southern bit (19-20-21 on M21E) seemed to be particularly interpretive (and/or in need of an update), although there was enough there for even me to find the controls without any real problems. I was also thrown by the unexpected trees in the quarry, although here I suspect that attempting to put all of the vegetation detail on there might have made the map illegible at 1:15.

[HOCOLITE]

Firstly Wendles have had great fun with the thumbnails guessing the club members.
I think we were better at that than the O
I really enjoyed the relay both at BOC and JK. Since the relay lengths have been made more sensible I have actually wanted to do something other than AD Hoc.
Thought my individual course was far too physical and in a grotty area, but when relay used it it seemed better, obviously down to planning.
With respect to Mrs H's comment about M/W10 B's. I think it is a great shame that these course winners don't get a trophy or medal as these children are normally not 9/10's and it is their first experience of success so should be encouraged rewarded. At this age to take something back to school is a massive thing but a waterbottle doesn't quite say this child has won a major event does it A certificate would be reasonable if a medal is deemed inappropriate.

[King Penguin]

.... I suspect that attempting to put all of the vegetation detail on there might have made the map illegible at 1:15.

Does that make the scale inappropriate for the area ? Discuss.

Complicated here by the fact that it was a very small part of the total area, the vast majority of which was fine at 1:15,000.

[DJM]

Anyone else confused by knolls being camouflaged as hides?

For example, BOC splits show that 213 (knoll) was a downfall of many a good orienteer (a WOC Bronze medallist amongst them maybe). Why? Because the knoll had had a whole load of straight branches stacked against it so it looked just as if it had come straight out of the "how to build a hide" chapter from the planners' bible!

Was this by accident or by design ...

[Big Jon]

Perhaps the fact that the map is copyright "Silverhill Maps" rather than "Copyright Walton Chasers" might have had an influence on the mapping? I don't know, but it seems very strange to me that a company or individual holds the copyright of such an important map. Any further information - such as who is "Silverhill Maps" and what was the revision and updating that was done for BOC 2010 would be useful in establishing what actually happened.
As a further note it would be interesting to know what the "BOF map adviser" said about the map and how up to date it was.

[Slowtochide]

Well the 'knolls disguised as hides' threw me a little (10sec hesitation) but I certainly heard from a number of good orienteers who lost 2 or 3 minutes, either finding #213, or when trying to use it as an attack point, due to confusion over what it represented. Plus one who retired having visited 'the hide' three times before realising it was really the knoll he wanted. I assume that someone decided that this, plus the other knoll (code unknown) adjacent to the radial rides, was too low a feature to be used as a control site and that it needed to built up. In which case, either they shouldn't have been used or a note was needed in the start lanes or programme to explain that these knolls had been 'enhanced' and no longer looked like what they were mapped as.

With reference to the ealier comment about control descriptions on (or rather not on) the map this was certainly not clear in advance. There was a comment in the programme but it was buried in a solid block of (mainly) irrelevant text rather than being highlighted. I always aim to pick up loose descriptions and was unaffected, but the end result was that a junior from my club turned up at the start expecting the descriptions to be on the map. Although the start officials emphasised the point that everyone should pick up a set of descriptions he had no way to secure them and consequently lost them halfway around his course, mispunched and was therefore disqualified. A most unsatisfactory end result. I can't help thinking that all event details should start with a section entitled 'If you read nothing else read this' which aims to hit the really important points. Event programmes seem to get ever longer and ever more wordy - with the important information getting obscured by the irrelevant. (Discuss)

Definite doubts about some aspects of the mapping on but really good planning. A good weekend wrapped up by a very enjoyable race at MOD Stafford - if you didn't go you missed a good event. And the first time I have parked indoors for an O event

[LostAgain]

With respect to Mrs H's comment about M/W10 B's. I think it is a great shame that these course winners don't get a trophy or medal as these children are normally not 9/10's and it is their first experience of success so should be encouraged rewarded. At this age to take something back to school is a massive thing but a waterbottle doesn't quite say this child has won a major event does it A certificate would be reasonable if a medal is deemed inappropriate.

As my son aged 8 has taken 2nd place at JK and British Classic on M10B, for which he has received nothing, not even being asked to come to presentation I wholeheartefdly agree with HOCOLITE. It seems wrong.
Generally speaking I think Junior "B" winners should receive momentos howveer, the M10B is not a genuine "B" class but more and M9- class, in my opinion, and deserves a medal.

[Slowtochide]

I think that it is quite simple - we should aim to give prizes (and any other form of enciouragement you can think of) to juniors at every available opportunity. So definitely prizes for the top 3 in junior B classes. And Junior Ad-Hoc relay teams. When SLOWs juniors won an AdHoc race and there were no official prizes we made a quick visit to the O suppliers and the club made a special award to the team members - make juniors feel special. It is important.

[SJC]

An equally valid point of view is that this is the British Championships.
If you want to win something then enter the A or L course.
Remove all the B and S courses and offer colour coded alternatives instead.

[Gross]

B and S classes were discussed early on... can't remember other peoples opinions but mine was that only 'British Championship' classes should get awards... JK etc is different I guess and my view would be to give kiddies awards there.

[Mrs H]

Surely the ultimate extension of that argument is that there should be only one course available at the British Championships and the fastest man and woman on that course are the British Champions - everything else is just age tokenism

[awk]

The question comes as to where one stops. It's fine saying that 2nd and 3rd on B courses should receive something (and I'm a parent of one who has been in the top 3 in a B course), but why should they receive something in front of (for instance) 4th, 5th and 6th on the A course?

I do think the M/W10B could be regarded as a bit of an exception. Certainly, the year offspring ran it (some years ago now!), it was effectively the M8 race, and it seems it largely remains that. There is, of course, the consideration as to whether there should be championship courses for children this young, but that, currently, is another consideration.

Where I do think a rethink might be necessary is the area of relay classes. It strikes me as somewhat odd that it's the Junior Ad Hoc that is the largest class, whilst some Championship classes can barely get enough teams to fill the podium.

Surely the ultimate extension of that argument is that there should be only one course available at the British Championships and the fastest man and woman on that course are the British Champions.

Not really. The L/A classes have been designated championship classes, and the championship is based on age classes. S and B classes are extras for those who feel they are not ready for the A and L classes. As an S class runner, I personally think it would have been really pretentious of me to regard my class as a championship class - I was certainly not competing against the best M50s.

[Mrs H]

T As an S class runner, I personally think it would have been really pretentious of me to regard my class as a championship class - I was certainly not competing against the best M50s.

...I don't think anyone is disputing that - certainly not me - as you say it's a question of where you draw the line but personally for the atmosphere alone - I think it would be a big mistake to drop the B and S classes - whatever SJC might think - a lot of people are not going to travel to the other ends of the country to run a colour-coded event - especially the way fuel costs are going and apart from any other consideration that will affect your volunteer pool.

Taking the matter back to the junior prizes and awards. One problem as I see it is the total lack of consistency. Last year junior B and S (older juniors) 1,2 and 3s were put on the podium at both the British and the JK and the winners received handsome mementos. I remember that at the excellent BOC on Penhale 5 years ago the juniors were very well celebrated and yet this year at the JK in the SW it was just the B class winners. Has there been some official change of policy on this or is it just the recession?

I think it would be a good thing if there was some kind of consistency - whatever that turned out to be. Then at least kids would not be disappointed as they'd know what to expect.