On-line entry system

[frog]

Is that Adrian Moir?

[Mr Chips]

The best bits of IT in O (OCAD SI EMIT) have all been developed independly by commercial organisations - things like the BOF web page / ranking lists / event lists are OK but have subject to a great deal of fairly negative comment.

Some of the commercially developed SI software comes in for a lot of negative comment whenever I use it!

[AndyO]

I agree with most folk here - BOF can park any need to develop their own online system, as there are already good alternatives in use.

[Marco Polo]

Is that Adrian Moir?

The post before yours is not from Adrian Moir.

[pyrat]

I think BOF should follow the British Government and concentrate on opening up their data rather than in house development. (http://data.gov.uk)

Money would be better spent paying someone like Ray Barnes to implement web services for parts of the membership database, ranking system and potentially a results database.

This would allow other orienteers to use this data to build compelling applications rather than BOF spending a lot of money to attempt to create the same experience in house.

[madmike]

Even though you may be slightly biased on this thread Pyrat, I agree with you entirely.

IMHO BO(F) should concentrate on issues like sorting out the broken bits of the new membership database before replicating capability already available elsewhere.

If it ain't broke don't try and fix it; however, if it is broke..............

[guessed]

not sure how I got into this thread !? but thanks for the namecheck Pyrat !

To widen this topic a bit: Why isn't there an XML inport for the Fixtures system ? Our fixtures secretary has to type everything twice - once for the database that's integrated into the club website, then again for the BOF registration. Crazy in 2010.

[Clive Coles]

Thanks DJM for explaining how, back in 2003, the "blueprint " for the redevelopment of the BOF web/data base facilities was conceived. As you say a lot of the building blocks have been constructed. Despite all the moans we are in a far better state than we were.

But over this period circumstances have changed. There are a number of sophisticated software products such as SI, OCAD & Fabian4 which provide functionality that support our sport. We no longer need to develop a BOF centric solution for everything.

I wonder.... were clubs ever asked if they wanted BOF to provide this facility ?

I think there is a very strong message emerging through this thread. The new Board need to review if there is still a demand for the development of an on-line entry system.

[Marco Polo]

not sure how I got into this thread !? but thanks for the namecheck Pyrat !

To widen this topic a bit: Why isn't there an XML inport for the Fixtures system ? Our fixtures secretary has to type everything twice - once for the database that's integrated into the club website, then again for the BOF registration. Crazy in 2010.

I agree, maintaining two sets of fixtures is a pain, but is there an xml standard for fixtures? (I guess we can use BOFs if we are happy with it, but is it future proof? )

[Angry Haggis]

To widen this topic a bit: Why isn't there an XML inport for the Fixtures system ? Our fixtures secretary has to type everything twice - once for the database that's integrated into the club website, then again for the BOF registration. Crazy in 2010.

Just a thought - you could turn it around, so that the primary entry is into the BOF system and then your website scrapes the data into its own database. That would eliminate double-entry but with a slight loss of flexibility.

Admittedly my club is also double-entry at the moment (with two different people as well) but I'm hoping this won't always be the case.

[Angry Haggis]

I think BOF should follow the British Government and concentrate on opening up their data rather than in house development. (http://data.gov.uk)

Money would be better spent paying someone like Ray Barnes to implement web services for parts of the membership database, ranking system and potentially a results database.

This would allow other orienteers to use this data to build compelling applications rather than BOF spending a lot of money to attempt to create the same experience in house.

I completely agree with this (and a very hot topic in my field at the moment) - in an ideal world all publically-funded bodies with a centralised content-repository role would make their data available via APIs, i.e. a formal separation of content and design!

orienteering.sports.data.gov.uk - now there's an interesting URL.

[guessed]

Just a thought - you could turn it around, so that the primary entry is into the BOF system and then your website scrapes the data into its own database. That would eliminate double-entry but with a slight loss of flexibility.

The BOF database is just a subset of the club database fixtures information where information is put together from boilerplates and other predefined information enabling a great reduction in effort (and increased accuracy) because the grid reference for a venue is already tied to the name of that area, as is the travel and parking etc etc.

If you scrape from BOF then you are relying on them. A case of the tail wagging the dog.

[The Loofa]

There's supplying information
and then there's presentation/marketing

what you put in the BOF site may simply be the former
but on your club website and for local marketing you may want to present it differently

PS agree with everyone else that with Fabian/SI entries etc doing such a fine job it would be a waste of resources for BOF to have its own system. What then? Mapping too?

[Clive Coles]

I'm with Haggis on this one

a formal separation of content and design

There need to be safeguards so that confidential data does not get released to inappropriate agencies but with these in place we could tap into greater expertise.

BOF will always struggle to keep up with software development ~ it's not their core skill.We cannot afford to keep financing development out of levy.

The software world is moving apace. There is competition between providors of, say, on-line entry systems.

Design and flexibility helps to sell systems to users of the software. One of my earlier questions on another thread asked why are so many clubs not entering information on their BOF Fixture record. I received some answers.

Too cumbersome, frustrating time consuming navigation paths through the database structure ~ prefer to enter information on my club web site.... etc.

Up to date accurate data is the the inherent weekness of a screen scrape solution. If the data is not there , or is wrong, you cannot rely on it.

I would prefer BOF to take time out to consolidate, correct and simplify the facilities they have introduced. Then club may be more prepared to make full use of the facilities. This should be followed by a re-evaluation of demand.

When we start to move forward again I believe BOF would be better served by providing open interfaces to solution company products.

[HOCOLITE]

I would prefer BOF to take time out to consolidate, correct and simplify the facilities they have introduced.

Sorry but you seem to have used BOF and simplify in the same sentence. Does not compute. Having read the resolutions they are the most complex set I've seen. Strangely public companies now make their resolutions simple. Yes/No and you don't usually get them inter-dependent. How do you use a proxy when how you vote on one resolution could vary on the result of another ?