Scottish Sprint

[greywolf]

But they do exist and they are clear.

Indeed - but they weren't apparent in the final details or at the prizegiving, where there was no mention of there being a championship, Scottish or otherwise, for veterans (40+), although there were competitions for a range of other age groups not mentioned in the rules and guidelines.

Great event anyway.

[andy]

Great event anyway.

absolutely! loved every minute of it. have run there 2 or 3 times before and I don't think it helped me in the slightest, trying to keep pace up while reading the map and making some massive route choice decisions was an excellent challenge.

Eddie - by your rules nobody would ever go orienteering! If I only turned up to things I had a chance of winning that'd limit me to local events at the local park where only non-orienteers turn up. The vast majority travel to orienteering events due to the fact they enjoy orienteering, because the vast majority are not going to win either titles or medals.

It's refreshing to see big fields on a given course with only a few prizes; juniors, seniers, vets. Would love to see it happen at more events as opposed to the usual low numbers of people on some courses.

[EddieH]

Spookster - you actually make my point - People do travel to Championships - You did precisely that travelling to the British nights. I assume you would not have gone to edinburgh had it been any old night event. Of course you didn't go for the Scottish sprints, but many Scots did.

I give 2 reasons for my position.

1 Having a Scottish Champion in a club is brilliant publicity material.

2 What is so special about 40 (In fact this is an age where it is still possible to be competitive with the elite). Somewhere round about 45 - 50 this becomes impossible, and then deterioration accelerates.

Anyway if the details had made the situation clear that the 55+ class is no more a championship than the S classes I'd have entered the 40+ even though I'd have no hope of winning - I'd still have been competing in a championship.

My nmind isnow made up that in future I'll go if it is combined with a good weekend, but there again I'd go tpo any sprint so combined. I will not bother to go because it's the Scottish sprint championship as I am disenfranchised from the competition.

[frog]

I was pleased to see lots of certificates for the kids and didn't care that there were only a few categories for adults, but then I never win anything and find the long prizegiving ceremonies at orienteering events a bit tedious. If I was good I might care more about the pots. Deciding who has won if there are lots of courses just seems to cause arguments anyway.

[EddieH]

I don't personally care for potsor prizes. It's titles that I am concerned about - 28 or so Scottish Championships titles for about 100 runners in the Scottish nights - 6 for 200 runners in the sprints.

Of course older people will go becase it looks like a good race, but how many over 50s will go because it i a Championship?

[andypat]

Idiot amateur mapping.
At Newcastle last year Dave Peel made the point that it wasn't the mapper's job to determine what will and won't be forbidden. All the mapper can do is map what's there. Not sure I agree, but it is an interesting viewpoint.
The map is actually correct to ISSOM, but the legend is wrong. The dark green is allowed to run through, only the olive green flower beds in the SE were meant to be OOB. The idiot planner should have picked that up and stuck the descriptions over the legend.

Thats interesting - I hadnt noticed the legend either (who looks at it during a race?). The legend does show the dark green for the boundary hedges to the north east and south of the area. I tend to think of the ISSOM forbidden dark green (421 as noted by Spookster) to mean vegetation that looks impassable on the ground (like a hedge, or a thick bed of bushes) and to attempt to cross them would cause damage (either to the vegetation or the orienteer!), whereas olive green would be used for areas which might look crossable on the ground (like a bed of tulips) but you arent allowed to for whatever reason. Is that reasonable?

[frog]

True, it wouldn't harm to have a male and female title every 10 years after 40 provided the folk in the same age group run the same course. There never seems much logic to number of prizes, pots, titles in orienteering though. Each race seems to have it's own rules.
re the forbidden areas I just avoid olive bits, red diagonal lines and thick black lines and didn't look at the legend.

[Homer]

The issue of the dark green/black vegetation screen on ISSOM maps seems to keep cropping up.

I wasn't sure on Saturday whether I was allowed to cross the dark green or not. I played safe (and probably lost some time) by keeping out of it.

Can I suggest anyone organising or controlling an event using an ISSOM map insists that clarification of which vegetation screens competitors can expect on the map appears in the Final Details?

[andy]

Can I suggest anyone organising or controlling an event using an ISSOM map insists that clarification of which vegetation screens competitors can expect on the map appears in the Final Details?

no no no no

adhere to the standards and change the colours on the map, if you don't want people to cross it then make it olive green (or surround it by the darker (uncrossable) green).

[EddieH]

I don't understand your reaction andy. Unfortunately it is difficult to distinguish between ISSOM dark green (thick) and dark green with black (forbidden).
There were endless discussions at Newcastle last year of which green was which - it turns out that the forbidden green wasn't on the map at all.

What on earth is wrong with details stating that the forbidden green is not used, or that the fight green isn't used and all dark green is forbidden.

Of course when they are both used you can say neither, but hopefully when you have the contrast it is easier to distinguish.

[andypat]

I'd still keep the legend on the map (or have access to one) so new orienteers dont feel completely stupid.

In my opinion the legend should be standard across events within the same discipline. Any changes should be in the event documentation (similar arguement on the night event thread)

FWIW Graeme if you are amending the legend, I dont think the symbol for uncrossable stream is right either on the KB map- think it should have a black border - albeit there doesnt appear to be one unless that tiny triangle in the bottom corner on routegadget is ?

[rebbid]

What is it about orienteering and green?

Thick green, dark green, forbidden green, olive green, uncrossible green, light green, short green, very short green.....

[andypat]

Of course when they are both used you can say neither, but hopefully when you have the contrast it is easier to distinguish.

Eddie - isnt that effectively the case for this event? Both were used (see the hedging around the boundary- the complicating factor was the incorrect legend, for which Graeme has apologised.

[EddieH]

No Andypat, they were not both used. I can see no blackened dark green, AND I have it on good authority from the mapper that there is none.

[Scott]

Eddie, I wasn't there, but the map on RouteGadget definitely has blackened dark green hedges, distinct from the "normal" (100%) dark green.

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