BOC

[greywolf]

The worst BEOC I've ever done was at Culbin/Forres back in '04 (I think) because apparently we elites needed good terrain, but it just felt like a training event.

Culbin was 2008...and generally received pretty good reviews...are you sure you're not confusing it with Lossie 2004? No wonder you didn't think much of the atmosphere if you were in the wrong forest

[EddieH]

No he means 2004 Culbin (middle) and Lossie (classic) the latter a race so popular that I managed to come round about 30th

[graeme]

because apparently we elites needed

Since you and GG, at least, are watching...
I'm genuinely curious about who determines what the "elites" want. Whenever I'm involved in organising an elite-related event there's a whole raft of heresay about what the elites "need", often quite different to what you guys say when I ask directly.
So, were the potential race winners specifically asked about BOC? Is the decision to have it at Cannock because your viewpoint has more support than GGs?

Cannock could be as good as typical continental WC terrain, but I do wonder why we keep coming back to the same bit. I've been around for long enough to see the same old areas coming up whenever a truly "National" event (BOC, BEOC, JK) appears. My last 3 races on the chase were Sherbrook, last 3 in Shropshire at Brown Clee, last 3 in FoD (whatever the BEOC area was called then). Even SOA had its last two JKs on Craig a' Barns.

I believe NeilC performed heroics to keep us away from Charlton again.

Is it right to keep coming back to exactly the same area: surely there are areas on the chase which are almost as good on an absolute scale, but would be a bit different from the same old thing?

[jac]

(although you will need to be a BOF member and hold a British passport in order to win a trophy).

Surely not? Presumably the final details will request all competitors to check that their British passports will not lapse before race day. Some long-term British residents and BOF members do not have British citizenship (and some have a good chance of winning a trophy). People who are eligible to have a passport (including many juniors) are not obliged to have one, and in many cases do not. Residents of NI qualify for Irish passports also and may not have chosen a British passport... (etc. etc. contd. p94)

[King Penguin]

Presumably the final details will request all competitors to check that their British passports will not lapse before race day.

Or maybe they will have to have at least 6 months still to run as at race day ?

[Scott]

You're not the only person to have questioned this since I made that post. This is the wording in the new competition rules for British Championships from 2011 onwards:

1.4.2 Competitors are eligible to be British Championships medallists provided that on the day of the competition they are National Members of British Orienteering and they hold a British Passport, i.e. they are eligible to compete for Great Britain.

To clarify "eligible to compete for Great Britain", here's what the IOF Foot-O rules say:

6.2 Competitors who are representing a Federation shall have full passport-holding citizenship of the country of that Federation.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I can remember a least one non-British citizen (but long-term resident) winning a trophy at a past British Championship.

[Ed]

That's actually a rather significant change in the rules. The old ones were that you had to be a BOF member and either a British passport holder or resident in Britain (I think for 6 months before the event).

It also puts the British rules at odds with most other nations who will let resident foreigners officially win things: e.g. the Scandinavian countries allow you to compete in either your own national champs or those of where you're living, but not both.

[jab]

Oldest child won a British Championship title well before he actually had a British passport since he had never been abroad at that point. I wouldn't have been too chuffed if I'd had to pay for a passport just in case he won a medal.

[distracted]

For all you lot taking things absolutely literally with regard to passports, would the following be better?

The British Champions must be eligible to hold a British Passport in addition to being a National member of British Orienteering

Because that's what Events Committee initially wrote. If you think that since then the rule has been made unclear, why not ask Rules Group to clarify - rulesgroup@britishorienteering.org.uk - rather than moaning/speculating on here...

[Arnold]

Never mind the wording, but it does seem a bit harsh to go from a very loose rule (6 months' residency) to a very tough one (passport only). And does disqualify quite a few long term residents. (Disclaimer: Including myself though I don't have any chance of winning).

Most other countries, to my knowledge, have a residency based rule but a tighter one than 6 months. In France and Austria, from memory, it's 3 years. Which seems fairer (note again my bias..) in particular as we're not exactly suffering from lots of foreign pot hunters who take up 6-month residency expressly so they can become British Champions.

Any idea why this change was made in quite such a "radical" manner?

ps - shouldn't it be "UK champion" rather than "British champion" anyway..?

[awk]

[quote="Arnold]ps - shouldn't it be "UK champion" rather than "British champion" anyway..?[/quote]

Yes - but then I'm never quite sure why we compete as Great Britain (in all sports), which, after all, is simply the name of the island.

[mharky]

athletics is GB&NI, about the only one though,

[EddieH]

But then Northern Ireland and Ulster are 2 entirely different things

[jab]

For all you lot taking things absolutely literally with regard to passports, would the following be better?

The British Champions must be eligible to hold a British Passport in addition to being a National member of British Orienteering

Because that's what Events Committee initially wrote. If you think that since then the rule has been made unclear, why not ask Rules Group to clarify - rulesgroup@britishorienteering.org.uk - rather than moaning/speculating on here...

well I would read those two versions quite differently. I obviously spend much too much time scrutinising legislation where the difference between holding a passport and being eligible to hold one would be considered important. I will contact rules group as you suggest.

[andypat]

Suggestion for BOF rules group.
1. Create Draft rule.
2. Consult as normal.
3. Create "final" document
4. Paste entire document onto Nopesport page
5. Redraft based on the shreds which are left from the Nopesport shark feeding frenzy.