JK Relay

[mharky]

This year’s JK will be the first with the new format JK Trophy category. The number of runners per team has been reduced from 4 to 3 runners, which, a long with the mixed leg lengths, will make it more accessible for more clubs to field teams in this historic competition.

JK 2010 Men's Short Entries

HH x 5 teams
WCH x 2 teams
OLV Zug x 2 teams

Obviously removing a leg hasn't made the JK Trophy any more accessible to the 15(!!!) Herts runners on the short.

Last year 24 teams ran Trophy (96 runners) and 53 ran Short (159 runners), 38 of the teams on Men's short averaged 30mintes per leg.

Shortening the length of the legs didn't work, last year we won in 104 minutes for 4 legs, 26 minutes each. Not exactly worthy of presenting the JK Trophy for.

I'd be interested to hear from people as to why they ran the men's short. Was it the "distance" of the Trophy legs, the 4th leg, they could do better in Short, they were entered for it without consultation, or perhaps its just what the have always done.

Last year HALO ran with an M53, W46, W17 & M47

Is the JK Trophy too tough or are the majority of British orienteers too soft???

[graeme]

Is the JK Trophy too tough or are the majority of British orienteers too soft???

Neither. It's just a rubbish competition because there are so few teams in it. If you get dropped early on lap one, your team can easily end up running round the whole thing on their own, which isn't really the point. I said at the time that shortening the courses to get more entries was totally pointless, and the facts now prove it. Combining with M120+ will help give it more of a relay feel.

The mistake was that when the JK and BOC trophies moved to the short course, they created an even shorter one! People are a bit obsessed with trophies, and so should be awarding more trophies on the main class (best in region, most improved, best 120+, best juniors etc. etc.)

[NeilC]

I'd be interested to hear from people as to why they ran the men's short. Was it the "distance" of the Trophy legs, the 4th leg, they could do better in Short, they were entered for it without consultation, or perhaps its just what the have always done.

For the club of which I am captain there are two main reasons:

i) We can win it. Pothunting perhaps but then we wouldn't put in teams containing elite M21s (even if we had any). Our winning teams last year were made up of 16s, 40s and 45s

ii) It provides a suitable set of courses to allow me to put together a number of teams from a diverse club membership that can then compete against each other and provide some fun intra-club competition

[andy]

there is no need for the short class any more at jk relays

but if I happen to run it, wasn't my choice!

[Jon X]

Our winning teams last year were made up of 16s, 40s and 45s

It provides a suitable set of courses to allow me to put together a number of teams from a diverse club membership that can then compete against each other and provide some fun intra-club competition

Mharky - glad someone spotted that news item, I guess it would be better if prominent on the entries page rather than a couple of lines on a different page - as per Graeme's point then the change will have no effect on entry numbers if it is not publicised in the right places at the right times!

Neil, if you won last year I hope you are stepping up to the main race this year! As Mharky points out the Trophy legs are pretty short so if the intra-club aspect is really your main focus rather than racing other clubs, you could still do so on the Trophy - which now would also enable your diverse teams to race against your 120+ teams....

More generally then I wonder if the Men's Short would be so popular if renamed to "JK Trophy B race" (no idea whether this would make a difference)? Similarly should the winning club one year be ineligible for prizes on the B race the following year?

[haloite]

Last year HALO ran with an M53, W46, W17 & M47

That's only because we thought we had a realistic chance of winning - until the race started, that is!

[Big Jon]

Get rid of the "short" relay in JK - realistically even the "mens open" is a short relay when EUOC can win in 104 minutes for 4 legs. If people can't manage a 4 or 5 km leg then they can run ad hoc.

[awk]

Shortening the length of the legs didn't work, last year we won in 104 minutes for 4 legs, 26 minutes each. Not exactly worthy of presenting the JK Trophy for.

I'm not arguing against longer legs, but i am intrigued by this. Why is a winning time of 26 minutes per leg not worthy of a JK Trophy? I've just watched the Olympic men's biathlon relay, and previously the cross-country relays - each competitor skiing for 20-25 minutes. Brilliant races. I know that these aren't orienteering, but they are all endurance based sports.

[NeilC]

Neil, if you won last year I hope you are stepping up to the main race this year!

Fair comment - even though I've personally never managed to be in the winning team

Perhaps also the winners of the CST should step up to the Cup the following year

[HOCOLITE]

I thought the mens and womens short were there to give captains the option of running M or W of different ages on TD 4 courses which are not too long. This scenario is more relevant to British where there are age classes. I would struggle to run a relay in my age class but have managed to do a W short. In fact the team I was in were all W 50's but we were not up to running the W50 relay.
In the JK it gives the captain more options when you have numerous M50/55/60 but no W's in the appropriate age group to run the M/W 160 plus or whatever it is.
Also the Short classes allow for injury cover etc so when people drop out the remainder can still be competive.

[Mrs H]

I'm not sure i follow what you are saying Hoco as I recall the women's short and the w50 are run on the same courses in the british and the women's short and the w165+ is the same in the JK

[ba-ba]

I remember last September-time being told that the men's/women's shorts were being scrapped and the Premiers being turned into the shorts. At least 1/2 of what I was told appears to have been true...

[graeme]

How it should be...

The JK Trophy relay should aspire to be a proper mass participation festival relay. It should be the highlight of the weekend, as was anticipated when this trophy, not the individual, was named for Jan Kjellstrom.

It should be different from the British Relays. A festival, not a championship.

It should be the centrepiece to the weekend, held on Saturday or Sunday, before the top elites are exhausted from the long and everyone else from two classic races. This would also save entire teams being ruined because one person has to work on Monday.

There should be at most two technical courses. Men and Women. Also less technical courses for children.

All trophies should be retained, and awarded within the single course.

The relay should provide a range of challenges suited to teams of different compositions. To win overall, to be first in an age class, to beat the mass start, or simply to complete. The commentary should pay due attention to all these.

An aggressive mini-mass start on the final leg could contain a third of the field (as with Jukola/Tiomila). Nobody should be left to plod around alone off the back.

...the best orienteering events in the world are the mass participation relays, Jukola and Tiomila. The JK has as many teams as Tio, so why can't it be as exciting?

[Monte]

I don't have the job of putting in our club's relay entries but I expect we will have several Short Open teams. The Premier is now so short that this decision may be worth reviewing.
The reasons for Short Open echo those of NeilC and others: intra-club competition; ease of changing teams around due to injury; no-one who has shown interest so far is ranked in the top 500 so we avoid a Premier class; probably no chance of featuring in the first three in any class.
Any club with a 'top 100' or up-and-coming orienteer should consider entering the Premier and giving them the 1st leg for the head-to-head experience against some of the best in the country. If our club had a 'star' I would happily plod round a 2nd or 3rd leg to allow this.

[madmike]

Any club with a 'top 100' or up-and-coming orienteer should consider entering the Premier and giving them the 1st leg for the head-to-head experience against some of the best in the country. If our club had a 'star' I would happily plod round a 2nd or 3rd leg to allow this.

You can also do this on short open