No M/W20s in the YBT

[RJ]

...and of course I can think of another two off the top of my head in the same echelon who despite home and uni based advantages are not particularly active in the sport now for what ever reason ......

We've had this discussion before. Every year the sport ( and Cumbria very much so) sends dozens of good orienteers off to Uni. By and large they are lost to the sport for quite a few years. They are generally very much more interested in their courses, their future careers, and often..... their future family. They are not really lost to the sport.... they just don't want to commit to high level elite orienteering.... they don't have the spare time to set aside to train etc.

The answer lies in having a much larger participation base. With many more thousands competing and participating we would notice the M/W21 group rather more.... there would be more but perhaps not the dominant numbers we had in the 1970s! We have certainly seen a trickle of new M/W21s into our club activities.... fingers crossed it will continue.

[SeanC]

Of course one way to increase our numbers is to retain those we have.

My idea of a mini YBT trophy for small clubs didn't seem too popular, but generated an entertaining discussion, so I shall persist with another idea.

Thinking back to when I was in my early 20's, the thing that put me off orienteering was the limiting social opportunities. Team events like the YBT are rare. So how about another competition for M/W 20's/21's, run at the same YBT events maybe. This would give people in this age group would have an opportunity to meet other orienteers in their age group, for example when they leave uni and move into a new area (to generate a social circle, people to train with, maybe go on orienteering trips abroad etc).. Especially when the local club is small, there might be only one or two under 40's in the club. This would imply teams at a subregional level apart from a few big clubs.

[Oldman]

So how about another competition for M/W 20's/21's, run at the same YBT events maybe. This would give people in this age group would have an opportunity to meet other orienteers in their age group, for example when they leave uni and move into a new area (to generate a social circle, people to train with, maybe go on orienteering trips abroad etc).. Especially when the local club is small, there might be only one or two under 40's in the club. This would imply teams at a subregional level apart from a few big clubs.

I hope you've fed that idea into the BOF Competition review.

[DM]

Familytaxidriver, if your son is who I think he is, the course planned over Christmas at Haslingden Grane? was a really good night event. Planning must have been a challenge in itself with all the snow. Thanks to him.

I don't agree with the exclusion of M/W 20 from the YBT but fell they should have a course of their own, or even the same course (orange) competing against their own age class, must be possible in the results.

[Blonde bombshell]

I'm not sure that M/W 20's are any more fragile then other juniors.

We have had a whole range of experiences with M/W 20's. GB squad runners choosing their career before O and picking a uni to suit. Other start squad runners choosing their uni because of O. Many disappear for a few years before coming back into the sport.

We are fortunate that O is a sport for all ages. M/W 20/21s can try other sports, but always have the opportunity to come back. The same can't be said for many other sports.

Younger juniors have different pressures - hormones, exams, peer pressure. I am more concerned about losing these juniors before they have reached TD5 standard. It will be far harder for them to come back into the sport. Being asked to run competitively against a M/W 20 on an orange or LG course is not going to encourage these runners.

By all means keep M/W 20s in the YBT, but they should only be eligible for the green course. Or add a blue course as this is the standard M16s are being asked to run now.

[HOCOLITE]

I don't think cutting M/W20's out is the best idea but I don't think Novice M/W 20's should do anything below Light Green, and I think M18/20's with 'relevant badge standards, should run blue as they would at CSC.
It was a bit tough when my youngest had to run green in ybt as a 14 year old (1st year M16) due to badges and had to run against M20's like James Furness, Rob Little and Rhys Findlay Robinson. However their turn comes if they keep up their involvement.

[NeilC]

........I also see that M/W20s will no longer be included in the YBT. Again I don't have any overwhelming feelings about this EXCEPT that it is a tool to keep a very fragile age group active in the sport so I'm not sure where the actual benefits lie.

This only seems to be a recommendation from Junior Competitions Group - the board could well not endorse this - as we have seen they do not autmatically approve everything that comes to them from the groups/committees. Perhaps the "participation" light will start flashing and force a rethink.

Anyone know if there is an alternative reason for the JCG's decision other than to make it in line with the PP (not that that seems any sort of reason to redefine a junior)?

[Mrs H]

This only seems to be a recommendation from Junior Competitions Group - the board could well not endorse this

Wot? You mean we might be expending all this emotional energy for nothing? I'll have to stop reading the committee minutes. which reminds me - the Club of the Year was apparently judged on February 12 - who won?

[Blanka]

Anyone know if there is an alternative reason for the JCG's decision other than to make it in line with the PP (not that that seems any sort of reason to redefine a junior)?

This is what came with the information about the JCG meeting via the EA mailing list to me:

Definition of Junior
For all other non elite junior competitions within BOF M/W 18 is the oldest age class involved. Most club M/W20 are unavailable as they are away at university and separate competition for University students of all ability is on offer.
It is therefore proposed that the competition should be for M/W 10 – M/W 18.

This seems strange to me as the biggest junior competition of all, the JWOC, is mainly for M/W20, with the option of good M/W18's also attending. In the other European (orienteering) nations, I believe M/W20 are very much seen as juniors.

[NeilC]

Definition of Junior
For all other non elite junior competitions within BOF M/W 18 is the oldest age class involved. Most club M/W20 are unavailable as they are away at university and separate competition for University students of all ability is on offer.
It is therefore proposed that the competition should be for M/W 10 – M/W 18.

Well that's not true, the JK, British and Harvester junior relay classes all allow M/W20s to compete. These can't be considered elite. The FCC perhaps could be although some of those who regularly qualify for the final would not consider themselves so - ie they don't run the elite class at the major championships.

[Familytaxi driver]

As I said above FTD I agree

Think I'll change my name - I look like an unpleasant disease Not that I mind the abbreviation as such.

[Scott]

I'll have to stop reading the committee minutes. which reminds me - the Club of the Year was apparently judged on February 12 - who won?

It has indeed been judged. I think the clubs who entered were notified of the results last week, so hopefully there should be an announcement on the BOF website soon...

[SJC]

the JK, British and Harvester junior relay classes all allow M/W20s to compete.

Don't think the British does.
Junior Inter Regionals and Junior Home Internationals also stop at M/W18.

[graeme]

Well that's not true, the JK, British and Harvester junior relay classes all allow M/W20s to compete.

Actually...

1/ The British doesn't
2/ The JK allows M21s as well, except for the 40- class where technically you could have two 10s and a 20 (but AFAIK nobody ever has).
3/ The Harvester is a senior competition. In fact it's the *only* event "owned" by the senior competitions group - which group is more than happy to have an under 20 class, but has no right to define a "junior" competition.

I should get out more...

[SeanC]

SeanC wrote:
So how about another competition for M/W 20's/21's, run at the same YBT events maybe. This would give people in this age group would have an opportunity to meet other orienteers in their age group, for example when they leave uni and move into a new area (to generate a social circle, people to train with, maybe go on orienteering trips abroad etc).. Especially when the local club is small, there might be only one or two under 40's in the club. This would imply teams at a subregional level apart from a few big clubs.
I hope you've fed that idea into the BOF Competition review.

Not yet but sure, I will. How do I do this?