What grade of planner/organiser are you?

[SeanC]

Who said that they thought coaches should have to have formal qualifications and first aid certificates?
I'd favour a more informal approach to coaching, particularly at a club level where people keen to coach can have a go even if no formal training and leave the formal stuff to those in charge of the Scottish squad training etc. Someone else has decided we can't do that however.

My understanding is that you can do coaching without a qualification so long as it's at an event and it's not advertised as coaching or training.

Having said that it's clearly a lot easier to organise interesting coaching activities at a dedicated coaching event. The small numbers and time spent with new orienteers are also a great way to get them involved in the club, give them a chance to ask questions and move them quickly beyond yellow and orange courses and into the more interesting stuff, so I would say no - coaching shouldn't just be at a regional level.

I thought the UKCC level 1 coaching course was really good - well worth going on. The exercises were surprisingly advanced - I was just expecting exercises aimed at absolute beginners and young children but we did exercises on attack points, aiming off, pacing...

The barrier is that courses are often far away, and spread over 2 weekends when there might be other things on. Less so for the level 1 course. I don't think we should bash BOF for this as we are a small sport and my impression is that they have done a good job squeezing the maximum amount into the lower coaching levels. There was some money around to help with the costs, not sure if it still is.

Compulsary formal qualifications for organisers and planners is a no brainer no unless we want to completely change the way we do local events (either a lot less of them, or have a number of semi-professional organisers who organise lots of them - which implies greatly increased event fees somewhere).

[Becks]

[quote="SJC]
Simple. There is plenty of paid work available for coaches provided they have the appropriate qualifications. [/quote]

Really?! I'm skint, can you point me in the right direction?

(Except I think my qualification officially lapsed at Christmas. Oops!)

[andy]

any sort of formal qualification = very very very bad

But it's alright/should be done for coaching?

Absolutely not. I know of a few potential coaches (myself very much included) who've been put off completely by the raft of unnecessary beaurocracy involved.

[Sunlit Forres]

I find the idea that because someone has planned many times they are therefore good at it quite bizarre. They may have learnt a few must dos, but I am aware of a (very few) regular planners (and controllers) that have quite a record for misplaced controls for one, and in general judgement terms that plan dull uninspired courses.

There are some planners that produce IMO inspired courses - I expect that they did this from their first event.

I hope the last control on my Brown Course at Darnaway didn't set me up for that one Eddie! I do take your point though - this is one of GreyWolf's pet subjects too. However, on the basis that most humans learn by their mistakes, I would have thought that access to a potential planner/controller's experience record would be helpful, even in a negative way if your recognise some of the events on their list as having been crap.

I personally wouldn't mind having a list of what I've done in the past. I can remember about a year back but other than that I haven't a clue.

[RJ]

This is one place where central control by BOF is not the way forward. All events are staged by clubs. Those clubs with ClubMark status will have systems in place to ensure the quality of their events.... which means having 'internal' assessment of their planners, organisers and controllers, and being quite clear about who they would like to take on the various tasks.

The neighbouring clubs to me are more than capable of staging quality events and I have no hesitation going to them. Self assessment by the club is the way forward, with a way for competitors to feed back to the club what they perceive went wrong. NopeSport is a crude sledgehammer, but nonetheless useful!

Where BOF can help is to provide web based material that clubs can use to promote good practice and to improve self assessment. Over the years we have developed a small set of guidelines for our informal series of events. It isn't rocket science to get an event right.... just careful thought.... something that all of us are capable of.

[graeme]

It would be nice to know the quality of the planner (especially) since this has as much impact on the quality of the courses as the area does. And probably more impact on the quality of the competition. I've certainly made special effort/avoided events on the strength of knowing who the planner was. But I seldom have that information.

Unfortunately, I don't see how this could be done in practice, as courses are never assessed. The fact someone went to a course in Birmingham wouldn't impress me one way or the other.

[EddieH]

Well Sunlit Forres I did criticise the siting of one control, and you were big enough not just to take it, but also to admit to a wider public that it wasn't perfect. (For those that want to know, the control was sited in a long broad reentrant on the map - on the ground it was in a deep steep part so that it was invisible from above).

the fact is that had the course been really bad I probably would not have made that criticism because I'd have nothing positive to balance it with, and it is all too easy to put off someone who put their effort into providing an event. Opening criticism up to forums such as this provides all the more potential for pushing people out of not just helping, but out of the sport altogether as some comments are frankly obnoxious.

[distracted]

any sort of formal qualification = very very very bad

But it's alright/should be done for coaching?

Absolutely not. I know of a few potential coaches (myself very much included) who've been put off completely by the raft of unnecessary beaurocracy involved.

Bureaucracy in what sense - the CRB etc. side of things? I'm not sure there's a great deal we can do to change that...

If you're against training for coaches in general, that surprises me. Would you want teachers in schools who hadn't done any teacher training?

[roadrunner]

I think I've suggested this before, but Runners World have a system where people can (and do) rate races on a range of aspects - the comments are in general a fair mix of positive and negative (obviously people will sometimes perceive the same thing in different ways, for example some love hills and some hate them). Nevertheless, I find this a useful way to decide whether I might like to do a particular race.

I don't see why a similar - not identical - system wouldn't work for orienteering. If you could select comments by club, area, planner, organiser then you could form an opinion about those aspects of a forthcoming event. It could also provide useful feedback to the people concerned about how to improve in the future.

[Clive Coles]

Something at the back of my mind reminds me that BOF have produced a report showing what people have done in regard to organising, planning and controllering.

I believe it is available on the reports menu ( along with the downloadable fixture list and major events list) which can only be retrieved nominated Fixtures secretaries and their nominated deputies. Cannot check this out as I am no longer on the panel of authorities.

Perhaps a current Fixtures secretary can confirm if this is available.

[andy]

If you're against training for coaches in general, that surprises me. Would you want teachers in schools who hadn't done any teacher training?

Depends if they're a good teacher or not I've certainly had some bad teachers in my time...

I'm not against training, i'm against having to do a lot of paperwork (which is usually irrelevant) in order to do something I know I can do just as well without having done said paperwork*.

a bit off track, but leaving uni a few years ago showed me that a degree is merely a foot in the door when it comes to jobs/life in general, you have to prove you can do it once you start the job, I've seen people with the same degree as me be truly awful at the same job I do. I don't think these coaching bits of paper should mean anything, I think they should just be a bonus that will help you get a 'job' in coaching. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to organise/lead a coaching session for a group of orienteers (incl juniors assuming their parents are happy for me to do so) without having to jump through hoops first. Don't get me started on disclosure forms and the nanny state!

*I also like complaining.

[Zokko!]

Something at the back of my mind reminds me that BOF have produced a report showing what people have done in regard to organising, planning and controllering.

I believe it is available on the reports menu ( along with the downloadable fixture list and major events list) which can only be retrieved nominated Fixtures secretaries and their nominated deputies. Cannot check this out as I am no longer on the panel of authorities.

Perhaps a current Fixtures secretary can confirm if this is available.

No, just a list of reports showing which of the events registered by your club have no organiser, planner, controller, map or details added.

[Clive Coles]

Thanks Zokkol

The report I was thinking of must have been produced by the old Fixtures system. Sods law ~ I deleted that database from my PC only last month !

By that stage of course it would not have been any use as no updates would have been made to it for over 12 months.

Looks like another facility BOF no longer provide.

[madmike]

Really?! I'm skint, can you point me in the right direction?

Becks,
it's "paid" not "well paid" you'll still be skint!
Mike

And to be strictly accurate we should probably talk about licenced coaches rather than qualified coaches as there are lots of the latter and fewer of the former methinks!

[Gross]

Good planning is inspirational.... like everything... it can't be taught, you've either got it or you ain't. No amount of training or teaching will make a bog standard planner turn out anything more than bog standard courses that meet all the guidelines...

Same with coaching.... when was the last time you heard of a GB lead coach that had a BOF coaching certificate...???

NEDS & SEDS never had a requirement for a formal coaching 'certificate'... if they had... then they never would have happened....