Why is it the organiser's job to do the risk assessment?

[Gnitworp]

I won't knowingly in future compete in an event EddieH organises (if he ever does).

Oh, I will. Cut off your nose if you like, my money 's on Eddie's common sense and my own judgement of what is safe.

[DIDSCO]

andypat > Health and Safety is certainly one reason why I would not return to live in the UK.........but not the only reason, to get us started how about:

Over-crowded, rising violent crime, conjestion, lack of open space, poor public facilities, poor public transport, the blaming culture, political correctness gone too far, badly planned immigration policies, an inefficient police service, rise in anti-social behaviour, widespread obesity, the rubbish & litter.........seriously I could go on all day, and year after year it just gets worse and worse, problem is those people living in Britain are too immersed in it to see it - like Andypandy...sorry Andypat.

[AndyC]

Nobody is going to get hurt because of Eddie's fault (accidents do happen unfortunately even in the best organised events) because he cares and will use his experience to make it safe -even if he doesn't fill in the form

[andypat]

widespread obesity

I guess you didnt move to America then Diddy?

[frog]

My risk assessment only took 10 minutes. The main bit was about a gorge with a stream and crossing points. That was the reason I really needed to do it. The rest of it was ticking boxes and waffle.
I must admit for small local events in parks etc i have only actually written them down if someone actually asked to see them reckoning I'm in more danger driving to work in the morning than I am running round a park and hating the mindless beaurocracy of filling in a form for all events no matter how tame just to keep the overpaid insurance business happy.
I feel I should try and make more of an effort with them, but do feel they are mainly needed for large events or events with definite hazards.
When you are having to think up possible hazards that aren't really there just to put something on the form it's all a bit silly.

[Gross]

Conversely if you are ever injured in one of Eddies events I think claims r us would be interested to hear from you.......

Which is what makes it all a load of bollocks

[andypat]

I think the point being that where is the past it may have been OK to assume that because someone is experienced that they have done all the right things. Noadays writing down what you have done or thought about is important. Apart from reassuring anyone who wants to check that you have taken your responsibility seriously (I am sure Eddie does take this seriously despite his protestations) it also keeps you (and BOF)right in the event that someone has an accident. I could be wrong about this (maybe someone legal has a mind to correct me - if you dont follow the accepted procedure as laid down by BOF for insurance purposes, although they will pay out to someone injured due to your negligence, they may then attempt to recover costs from you if you havent done your part.

Amyone who feels Health and safety is all total ########## needs to take a look at some of the conditions workers are forced to work in in other parts of the world. Of course people take things to far, and as alluded to previously, thats usually due to fear of litigation NOT Health and Safety. To me its a bit like parking attendants. If they didnt exist, you'd never get moving in city centres for people parking illegally, but when you geet to the stage that councils are employing so many just as a revenue gathering exercise that individual attendants are waiting by cars until their ticket expires, then somethings clearly wrong. As i say - apply common sense and let people compete in the knowledge your not exposing them to unacceptable risk!

[seabird]

Over-crowded, rising violent crime, conjestion, lack of open space, poor public facilities, poor public transport, the blaming culture, political correctness gone too far, badly planned immigration policies, an inefficient police service, rise in anti-social behaviour, widespread obesity, the rubbish & litter.........seriously I could go on all day, and year after year it just gets worse and worse.

Blimey. Can you only get the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph where you are domiciled?

[Gnitworp]

Amyone who feels Health and safety is all total ########## needs to take a look at some of the conditions workers are forced to work in in other parts of the world.

Like the Third-World-style worker exploitation, carnage in the woods and bankrupting liabilities of BOF before the advent of the Risk Assessment Form?

[andypat]

[Big Jon]

Dids wrote:
Over-crowded, rising violent crime, conjestion, lack of open space, poor public facilities, poor public transport, the blaming culture, political correctness gone too far, badly planned immigration policies, an inefficient police service, rise in anti-social behaviour, widespread obesity, the rubbish & litter.........seriously I could go on all day, and year after year it just gets worse and worse, problem is those people living in Britain are too immersed in it to see it - like Andypandy...sorry Andypat.

Please Dids - don't tarnish Scotland with the English problems - come to snowy Scotland, you'll love it here - and the beers better (and cheaper) than Gothenburg....

[graeme]

I fear that if the media got wind of any parents allowing that today theys go ape.

You're not supposed to leave your kids home alone until they're 14, and you propose sending them out alone into the forest aged 8? Truly, you are a bad man Mr Harwood.

Risks. There probably are some. Don't know what they are, I'm too busy filling in forms, moaning about filling in forms, and writing down the bleedin obvious to have time to go out and look.

If you come to my event bad and unexpected things may happen to you - even if this bothers you, DO NOT stay at home: I will accept no responsibility for your obesity-related death.

Seriusly though, what are the main risks? I would guess driving to the event is the biggest.

[andypat]

Well, for example the organisers of Saturday's event identified not unreasonably that trafffic during the event may be a risk.

They identified the risk, made it clear to competitors that it was their responsibility to deal with it, and still put on a very good event. Common sense - yes. Risk assessment - not yet.

They identified that while this may reduce the risk to acceptable levels for adults, it would still leave an unaccepatable level of risk for children who may not be used to city centre roads and may not be able to safely negotiate them in the course of the competition. Was there a way of making it safe for them to do so? Yes - a course was provided that did not require the crossing of major roads - risk mitigated and parents can take decision as the whether there child is savvy enough to compete.

[EddieH]

Someone here said they'd like to be informed about various hazards including "adders".

Well think about it, what does such a warning achieve? The existence of adders is actually perfectly normal after they come out in the spring. Adders will always try to excape from people and the action of running generally ensures that they hide away although when they first come out in the spring they can be too dozy to successfully do this. At all other times you are infinitely more likely to get bitten if you walk carefully and quietly.

Furthermore an adder bite for MOST people is not a serious matter. (I have actually been bitten by an adder during an event and still finished it - the swelling and pain follwing the event was less than a bee sting that I have had although involving a calf muscle it stopped me training for a few days.)

All you achieve by telling people that there are adders is making some frightened, some terrified, some decide not to go out, and possibly marginally increase the risk of them being bitten as they might move in an unusualy careful way so that they don't alert the snake.

Jst look at Australia with al those poisonous snakes, some truly deadly. As far as I am aware no orienteer has ever been bitten during an event. Those that can't get the possibility of snakes out of their head cannot truly enjoy their run - you have to put it to the back of your mind (even though intellectually you are aware of their existance) otherwise you cannot possibly compete seriously.

In short adders are a fact of the British countryside - they are a minimal risk that anyone going out are accepting - why emphasise this risk? It gives the wrong mindset and reduces the risk not one jot.

[RJ]

I remember one event where the adders were identified and notification given to competitors..... please be careful near control 22 (code 168) on the long course. Not a general 'scare' statement, just specific information where a definite risk had been identified. Can't say if any adders were seen on the day.....

That's what risk assessment and its management entails.