Why is it the organiser's job to do the risk assessment?

[andypat]

I dont think its about "pretending" that you are making it safe Eddie.

A risk assessment from an "O" perspective should be about identifying risks, communicating them to the competitors so they can take account of them and addressing any risks which are not acceptable.

I'll give you an example from a recent low key urban event I'd a hand in. We've two rivers running through our village. One uncrossable and one crossable (a 10ft wide stream). At the time of the event the wet weather had made the crossable river quite signficantly more dubious than normal and a decision was made to route courses via mandatory crossing points (the two bridges) and inform participants of the change. No big deal, purely common sense, but avoids the clear risk of any kids being swept away. A formalised risk assessment form is a way of making sure you dont miss anything, particularly if you are a novice at it, but mostly it is just common sense and good communication.

[Adventure Racer]

In common with I suspect the majority I detest the whole formalised no risk society.

Life is exciting and is not without danger. I dont wish to spend a few extra hours pretending that I am making it safe.

In common with many other people you appear to completely misunderstand the whole point of risk assessments. I occasionally do them for work, and usually they don't take very long at all - as geomorph says you shouldn't just copy an existing one with no thought, but provided you do think about it it's perfectly acceptable to copy an existing one and check it still applies and there is nothing new (since work ones are for going off-site, the highest risk on mine is invariably driving!)

The thing is a risk assessment doesn't pretend it's safe, or get rid of all risk - it simply identifies the risks that exist and where necessary means you put in measures to mitigate these risks. The thing is it's so easy to overlook something because it's so obvious unless you do actually stop and think (eg the driving I mention above - how many would think of that first when considering whether a trial driving round in a van with lots of electrical kit was safe?)

[EddieH]

I remain totally unconverted. Our society's attitude that life should be risk free and that someone is to blame for everything that happens sckens me to the core.

And here's my risk assessment: The mollycoddling of our children because of real but highly improbable risks will cause the early death through ill health along with pain and mental problems of millions.

I camped alone on Dartmoor aged about 9. I wanted to do it - I was frightened and was home at dawn, but what a great experience. I fear that if the mediagot wind of any parents allowing that today theys go ape.

[Becks]

Off topic, that's exactly how I feel about the people who are still supporting Andrew Wakefield. On the news last night that made me very, very sad.

[seabird]

Any risk assessment of Wakefield's work will show he has created considerable harm, not just risk, for many children of parents who have been duped by his "research", into not getting their children adequately immunised.

And no Eddie, speaking as a child protection professional, I think your night on Dartmoor was great - and would still be great today.

[Adventure Racer]

I remain totally unconverted. Our society's attitude that life should be risk free and that someone is to blame for everything that happens sckens me to the core.

That's as maybe - nothing to do with risk assessments though.

And here's my risk assessment: The mollycoddling of our children because of real but highly improbable risks will cause the early death through ill health along with pain and mental problems of millions.

Agreed - that's because parents do exactly what I'm suggesting you get if you don't do risk assessments and actually analyse the risks properly - they worry about the bogeyman rather than the risk of a road accident during the drive to school. Nobody is suggesting a risk assessment will say "can't do orienteering, too unsafe", simply getting rid of the extra unnecessary risks where possible, which includes determining whether it's actually a risk worth worrying about. Of course if you don't actually have any of those then your risk assessment is extremely easy!

[EddieH]

I am glad to hear it Seabird, but yu can't pretend that the media today would see it that way. And what about the policeman fining someone for blowing his nose whilst out of gear in stationaary traffic

[AndyC]

Eddie,
I think tou've been doing risk assessments all thr time you've been controlling -you just haven't written them down or used a "form" as a reference.
Think about it, as an example, within the competition area there is a high crag. You'd make sure that the planner didn't design any leg so as a slightly misplaced or over excited orienteer was running straight at its top and could run straight over it. And you might consider marking the top as a warning as well (you'd at least have a warning in the notes and might have the start team remind people).
In essence all a risk assessment does is make sure you've thought of all the risks and recorded that you have done so in a way that reduces the chance of someone assuming that "Joe" will look after that

[madmike]

Andy,
agree that Eddie has been assessing risk all the time he has been controlling; moreover, experience, intelligence and common sense are key attributes that are much more important than a bog standard form with tick boxes.

However, the BOF risk assessment form does not ensure all risks are captured/assessed - planners, organisers and especially controllers eliminate or mitigate as much risk as they can. What the tick boxes do do is provide a framework to make it easier for th e organiser (or delegate) to get started on the risk assessment and is probably very useful for novice organisers.

A cynic might think the prime reason for having a bit of paper is because of the increasing number of ambulance chasing lawyers out there and the increasing number of elfs. As long as you have a bit of paper then you've done a risk assessment and you should be able to deny everything baldric.

[seabird]

And what about the policeman fining someone for blowing his nose whilst out of gear in stationaary traffic

Plain daft -
but Andy''s absolutely right about the fact that you will have done risk assessing for O plenty of times. The form can be a real burden or it can be a handy checklist - depends on the mindset you take to it.

Most of the answers to the risks highlighted on the form are "read the map"

We can't eradicate risk from O - risk is part of the sport - we can just make sure it is a reasonable (undefineable word I know) level of risk.

Now back to work - where risk is all too real!

[DIDSCO]

Has everybody in Britain been brainwashed apart from EddieH?

Having emigrated from Britain 11 years ago I often count myself lucky not to be living there. One of the reasons is Britain's health and safety regulations, inc. risk assessments. Admittedly I've not seen the specific orienteering risk assesment form, can just imagine, but as a PE teacher I've seen various copies of their risk assesment forms, and to be quite honest find it insulting as a professional to read through such drivel, never mind fill in a form of such total utter rubbish.

Its quite funny at my work when new employees arrive from Britain. They think they need a risk assessment form for everything, and are suprised and worried when we say they don't exist. Soon enough they realise that they've been brain washed by a bunch of pen-pushers back in Britain, that their common-sense is actually all that is required, and that health and safety was all just a load of b**llocks.

[Gross]

Dids... I'm here

[andypat]

Didsco - seriously you count health and safety as one of the reasons you are happy you left the UK? What are the others? Cant you stand the sewerage system that works? The electricty that doesnt go off every so often? The healthcare free at the point of use?

[Oldman]

I dont wish to spend a few extra hours pretending that I am making it safe.

If you approach risk identification and management with the attitude that you are "pretending", then that's likely what you'll do. In my opinion, there is real scope for approaching this task meaningfully and making things "safer" in a way that does not in any way reduce competitor satisfaction of competing in an adventure sport.

Personally, I would rather an organiser warned me about dangerous untaped crags, adders, road crossings, etc etc, and where relevant took action to reduce my risk (resp. selective taping, giving advice on what to do / not to do, and erecting notices to drivers or having marshals). How can he know if there are these risks without doing a risk assessment? How can he reduce my risk without acting sensibly on his identified risks?

I would never take on the role of organiser without having some experience or someone to guide me, and having insurance in place. And I won't knowingly in future compete in an event EddieH organises (if he ever does).

[andypat]

Conversely if you are ever injured in one of Eddies events I think claims r us would be interested to hear from you.......