Compass Sport Cup/Trophy

[Gonzo]

Now some of the rounds have been held, how about a brief discussion on potential winners of the final --- any changes from last year? any new pretenders on the block?

Ho-Hum SYO will win again - particularly given the location of the final.

[greywolf]

Well the travel solution is obvious. We have these far north mapped areas that Greywolf talks about on another thread. Let's have the CSC final up there then no-one gets the advantage of being local

Now that would be an O weekend to remember: CSC final in Stornoway Castle Grounds, Sprint race race round the town and a saturday night social in the Clachan

[NeilC]

Ho-Hum SYO will win again - particularly given the location of the final.

Though according to Attackpoint some of them regularly train on the final area and may therefore not be eligible to compete in the final.

[ba-ba]

the amount of good fell races that use Burbage as well... (including one this Sunday, gar!)

[Homer]

Ho-Hum SYO will win again - particularly given the location of the final.

Though according to Attackpoint some of them regularly train on the final area and may therefore not be eligible to compete in the final.
[/quote]

....not to mention one or two BOK members until very recently!

As a matter of interest, what is the embargo period for the C/S Cup Final?

[SYO Member]

As far as I'm aware, you can run through an embargoed wood or across a moor when out training as long as you keep on the main paths and tracks, especially if they're public footpaths.

But you mustn't go off path to check out terrain and possible control sites or do any actual orienteering on it.

[greywolf]

As a matter of interest, what is the embargo period for the C/S Cup Final?

CSC Final is a National event. The overview of the event guidelines says: "The area to be used for a National Event should not have been used for orienteering activity in the 24 months preceding the event."

Next year (2011) there are separate Event Rules for each type of National event; All but the JK Sprint and the CSC final have the following: "The competition terrain is embargoed as soon as its location is published. The terrain shall not have been used for orienteering for a minimum period of 24 months before the date of the Championships."

It's not really clear
a) whether this omission is deliberate or accidental
b) or whether anyone intends to enforce this rule on other National events...fixtures list suggests not.

but in any case, isn't there a general "fairness" rule about trying to seek unfair advantage? If it's a familiar training area then i don't see how you can not have an advantage

[Snail]

As far as I'm aware, you can run through an embargoed wood or across a moor when out training as long as you keep on the main paths and tracks, especially if they're public footpaths.

I don't know what the rules / guidelines say now, but people have been made non-competitive / DSQd from the JK before for precisely such an interpretation.

[Gonzo]

but in any case, isn't there a general "fairness" rule about trying to seek unfair advantage? If it's a familiar training area then i don't see how you can not have an advantage

So - does anyone have a definitive list of the clubs that are through so we can see who will benefit most when all the SYO high flyers declare themselves non-comp?
........or not!

[lilywhite]

Bloody SYO high fliers, planning all that training on Burbage, blatantly flouting embargo rules, then logging it on Attackpoint just to rub everyone elses noses in it. Makes me sick I tell you. I don't know how they sleep at night. As if ganging up and fixing the result at last years final wasn't enough.

[Gonzo]

Bloody SYO high fliers, planning all that training on Burbage, blatantly flouting embargo rules, then logging it on Attackpoint just to rub everyone elses noses in it. Makes me sick I tell you. I don't know how they sleep at night. As if ganging up and fixing the result at last years final wasn't enough.

Yes, yes, very amusing - in any case my earlier comments were exceedingly tongue in cheek.

If there are rules about embargoing areas then the rules should be followed.
If there are not rules about embargoing areas then club members can do what they like.

but in any case, isn't there a general "fairness" rule about trying to seek unfair advantage? If it's a familiar training area then i don't see how you can not have an advantage

If there is a fairness issue then it is down to the individual persons own decision about whether to compete.
Nobody else should complain about it if it is within the rules - if you think the rules are wrong then try to get them changed for subsequent years.

(Sorry - Don't mean to sound like a rule book thumper - I'm not!)

Going back to my earlier question - is there a list of who is through? Which rounds were postponed?

[greywolf]

If there are rules about embargoing areas then the rules should be followed.
If there are not rules about embargoing areas then club members can do what they like.

but in any case, isn't there a general "fairness" rule about trying to seek unfair advantage? If it's a familiar training area then i don't see how you can not have an advantage

If there is a fairness issue then it is down to the individual persons own decision about whether to compete.
Nobody else should complain about it if it is within the rules - if you think the rules are wrong then try to get them changed for subsequent years.

From the Rules of Orienteering: (from section 1.5 "Fairness")
1.5.2 Competitors shall not seek to obtain any unfair advantage over other competitors.

My point in refering to this as a catch-all was that whilst different levels of events have different specific rules about timescales etc, and that these change over time - so the rules for 2011 are different from those for 2010 - you can't use the omission (accidental or deliberate) of an explicit mention of embargoes etc in the rules for a specific event as a loophole to justify gaining an advantage.

Don't think anyone's bothered about local knowledge for local events, but it does matter for a National event, and it's not just down to an individual's decision whether or not to compete.

And for the record, my club doesn't bother to enter the CSC at all...

[jab]

Looking back to one of the previous arguments that raged on (and on) about this topic

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5444&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=ilkley&start=30

The advice from BOF at the time was, apparently, that non-navigational running on Ilkey prior to the JK was permitted. I would imagine that people have been assuming that this advice still holds so that (say) running along the Roman Road over Burbage, without a map, isn't a problem.

Many people may well feel that the advice from BOF at the time was wrong or unfair, but unless there has been a public retraction of that advice then surely people will still follow it?

[Snail]

... unless there has been a public retraction of that advice then surely people will still follow it?

But that advice has been updated, in 2008 - see the document linked at the foot of this page: http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/event/embargoed.php

For embargoed areas it is quite clear: "... Any activity on the area after [the embargo is known] would then be considered as attempting to gain an unfair advantage and the offender could be disqualified under Rule 1.5.5."

It does discuss the possiblity of running "through" areas in relation to to the general "unfairness" rule, but the implication is that this is in relation to unembargoed areas, so only relates to lower level events.

[Homer]

For info:

The NE round previously to be run by CLOK on 24/1 is now to be held at the HALO event on 25/4.
So you'll all have to wait until then to see if the holders qualify for teh Final.
I hope there's not too many doing the London Marathon!