Compass Sport Cup/Trophy

[Snail]

That rule got changed this year, I think SOC have it right.

I'm not sure they have - looking at the published results (rather than Tatty's post).

SARUM are competing in the Trophy competition, but have been given 4 scoring runners on the Light Green course. Since this is a "Very small" course, aren't they only permitted 2 ?

Should probably mean that WIM won by a larger margin.

[andy]

re: Scottish Heat
The (top?) juniors could have used their light green course as a warm down! the bigger problem was the SEDS weekend. It's not a case of importance, it's a case of what gets arranged first, I'm sure both these training weekends have been booked, had permissions saught etc already.

I'd love to see the CSC be a really big competition, but it needs more thought (in my opinion).

*Juniors - M/W 18- running LG? Our M/W16s run blue now (and one was running them, successfully, as an M14 last year).
*Timing/Location - the CSC needs to be made into a big weekend with another large-ish event, perhaps a national event / selection race (even if junior only) on the other day of the weekend. It's hard enough getting people to go to a very big 'weekend away' like this and near-on impossible for just a SoSOL level event in deepest, darkest England (where it's been in the past few years) especially when you desperately need a full team to be competitive.

[Mrs H]

re: Scottish Heat

*Juniors - M/W 18- running LG? Our M/W16s run blue now (and one was running them, successfully, as an M14 last year).

I think you're missing the point here Andy. It's not an elite competition its a club competition where club members make a difference - not always scoring but frequently "squashing down" scorers from other clubs.

A lot of local and less regular junior orienteers run easier classes - like the ones who come in from schools (remember the British Schools champs courses are easier than main stream courses) but you need the strength in depth across the board to do well in the CSC/CST. That's the point.

Of courses your juniors are a liberty to run up a course or three if you think it will progress your cause

[Angry Haggis]

Googling "compasssport cup rules" has this document from BOF as the top one:

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/d ... line_n.pdf

...which doesn't mention "Very Small" classes,

and this one as the second one:

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/d ... ules_m.pdf

...which does.

[Scott]

This is the set of rules valid in 2010. The BOF website is not particularly Google-friendly.

[distracted]

It looks like the system used at the Southampton event is applying the Cup scoring rules to the best 13 scores for the Trophy competition score - e.g. Sarum with 4 light green scorers (max 2), Wessex with 5 scorers on Blue Men (max 3), Wimborne with 3 on Green Women (max 2).

[frog]

I think next year having the Scottish CSC heat later in the year as stand alone or attached to SoSOL may be better than this year when in retrospect it was arranged too early in the year. Having it as part of a weekend is a good idea.
As well as the risk of snow early in the year (the snow at the upper areas of Dalguise was still over the tops of my wellies when there yesterday) few farmers will let you park in their fields early in the year which limits where you can hold it as there is the potential for 300 competitors.
Having the heat in Mayish time would then open up areas like Kinnoull for use.

The event is viewed differently in Scotland though as even if you do well in the heat getting enough folk willing to travel to the southern half of england to be competitive in the final is very difficult.

[distracted]

It looks like the system used at the Southampton event is applying the Cup scoring rules to the best 13 scores for the Trophy competition score - e.g. Sarum with 4 light green scorers (max 2), Wessex with 5 scorers on Blue Men (max 3), Wimborne with 3 on Green Women (max 2).

Quick calculation shows that the scores produced for the Southampton-hosted Trophy competition are correct, but the list of scorers shown for each team in the Trophy isn't - the latter using the cup scoring rules.

[andy]

A lot of local and less regular junior orienteers run easier classes

The same people who won't travel hundreds of miles to compete, thus only leaving 'elite' juniors to run down. The competition works if you can get a healthy compliment to travel... It's bad enough for ESOC but even worse for the other Scottish 'cup' team MAROC, who would have an extra 200 miles to get to the final.

ESOC is probably in a fairly unique situation with the CSC, we're a 'cup' rather than a 'trophy' but our number of regular orienteers is equivalent to a trophy sized club. So when it's a local-ish event we do well but when required to travel distances we can't get enough to even have a basic team. I probably just contradicted my choice to enter the competition itself this year (my first year of being involved in that choice), but it's a good way for people to get involved with the club on a local level, i.e. competing in the heat... the last time I was at a CSC final was at Ilkey moor a number of years ago, and I think we ran the trophy that year, and only just scraped a team together! ( results )
edit: I'm told I was a CSC final in 2005 near burnley, but I can only now vaguely remember it!

It's all of the above that makes it a less attractive competition in my eyes, hence not appearing to be too bothered by it. I think I heard a rumour the final is going to be in Scotland in the next few years (I might have just made that up) - if/when the final makes it's way North it'll be interesting to see who travels to it from south-mid England, especially given that those clubs have had it so close to them in recent years and thus will have a heightened appreciation for the competition itself.

[SeanC]

I hesitate to suggest this... but....

would it work to have separate competitions for Scotland and England? It "works" for football. It must be hard for small scottish clubs to travel even across Scotland if the heat is far from their home? so you could have heats in Scotland for south, central lowlands and highlands, then a scottish final.

A final competition could be a Churchill Cup - with the winners of the Scottish cup/trophy competition joining together to take on the winners of English cup/trophy competition at a venue agreed by the clubs????

[Scott]

A final competition could be a Churchill Cup

What, held in Canada? At least that would be more-or-less equally far for everyone to travel .

[AndyC]

Our round got cancelled a couple of weeks ago during the snow.

Any news of a replacement date CLOK?
My diary is pretty full already....

Unofficially NATO have been asked to free up the date of the Blagdon event (21st Feb) for the rearrangement - can't say for certain yet but Freefall is the controller of one and the planner of the other so he may be able to confirm (Blagdon would go back to the 14th March possibly)

[SeanC]

Doh, I meant the Calcutta Cup.

[andy]

A final competition could be a Churchill Cup - with the winners of the Scottish cup/trophy competition joining together to take on the winners of English cup/trophy competition at a venue agreed by the clubs????

I don't see that working particularly well, given that the base of the problem is a Scottish club travelling, and since we only have one heat in Scotland, our winner would still have to travel.

The CSC Final in 2012 is in the Borders (south of scotland), which will be interesting to see!

[Adventure Racer]

A lot of local and less regular junior orienteers run easier classes

The same people who won't travel hundreds of miles to compete, thus only leaving 'elite' juniors to run down. The competition works if you can get a healthy compliment to travel... It's bad enough for ESOC but even worse for the other Scottish 'club' MAROC, who would have an extra 200 miles to get to the final.

But the competition isn't just about the final - at least in England, many people don't have to travel hundreds of miles to compete in their heats. The problem with increasing the level of difficulty for juniors is that you'd disqualify some from being competitive, and as Mrs H mentions, they can always run up if it's a problem.

Of course the end result does sometimes seem bizarre - last year our reigning club champion was busy running LG whilst some he beat were getting quite respectable results on Blue and Brown.