4 Levels

[awk]

Before you know it you've spend half the afternoon reading a thread that makes War and Peace seem like The Sun.

Rated a better read than Tolstoy - wow!!!

What we need is some way of classifying the thread on the discussion board. I suggest 3 levels.........

LOL, but there I would be arguing for 4!

[RJ]

What we need is some way of classifying the thread on the discussion board. I suggest 3 levels.........

And three levels of moderator appropriate to each level. Better have a training course for grade 3 moderators right away then! Anyone want the job?

[DavidJ]

What we need is some way of classifying the thread on the discussion board. I suggest 3 levels.........

And three levels of moderator appropriate to each level. Better have a training course for grade 3 moderators right away then! Anyone want the job?

Stop! We need a committee first to consider how to do this correctly. Then a discussion document and then an implementation sub-committee. Then you can draft a syllabus for the training course ...

[SeanC]

SeanC wrote:
Before you know it you've spend half the afternoon reading a thread that makes War and Peace seem like The Sun.

Rated a better read than Tolstoy - wow!!!

I'm not really saying that. But something War and Peace, this thread and The Sun have in common is that few people get beyond page 3.

[Mrs H]

It's not compulsory to read threads you're not interested in.

Yeah but.....how do you know you're not interested in them until you've read them?

[awk]

I'm not really saying that. But something War and Peace, this thread and The Sun have in common is that few people get beyond page 3.

Few people orienteer as well.
W&P is a brilliant read though; can't comment on The Sun as can't ever remember reading it.

Yeah but.....how do you know you're not interested in them until you've read them?

By, for instance, reading until no longer interested, then stopping.

[Brian Hughes]

Running Level 2 events by colour courses is an improvement. It allows those in small age-classes to have meaningful competition, while those like me who are lucky to be in a big age-group (M60) can just ignore the colour results and look at the M60 list. That and the uniform ranking sytem with its filters, and the move away from 5 tiers, means that good did come out of the last review.

However, I am firmly in favour of a 4-Tier structure. At low key ('old' colour-coded) events I like running Brown/Black as a training run. At level 2s ('old' regionals) I want to race against my peers. I need to know what a Level 2 means. Yesterday I was planning one particular weekeend. I investigated 2 races advertised as Regional Events. One had 7 courses, the other 13 or so. This is clearly confusing nonsense and shows that in practice some clubs are promoting the old colour-coded (with perhaps limited quality) to Level 2. We need to get to a system where the active Orienteer as well as beginners know where they are. Link quality to the levels

Level 4 Local no age class. limited colour courses.
Level 3 Colour coded No age class, at least 7 courses. No quality guarantees.
Level 2 Regional around 13 Colour-coded courses mapped onto age-classes. Updated map. Good terrain Good controller
Level 1 Championship. Age class. As many courses as are required. First class map and terrain. Good controlling. Good assembly area atmosphere,etc.

The new disciplines of sprint, Middle, urban can presumably be mapped onto this structure.

A 4-tier structure much better reflects what clubs actually want to do on the ground in the Midlands.

No one has set been able to explain to me how a 3 tier structure would encourage recruitment of newcomers. Surely that was the aim in the first place?

Compared with the last review, adopting the 4-Tier structure would mean little work.
Then get on with the job of recruitment.

Brian Hughes (M60, HOC)

[RS]

Well said, Brian. Totally agree with you. Clearest post on all 8 pages
I've been getting more and more confused and thought I knew originally what I favoured. Your post confirms my original thoughts.

[Sunlit Forres]

I agree with every word Brian. Simple, understandable and well stated. 4 Levels gets my vote.

[NeilC]

And seemingly so simple - the more courses there are the better the event.

But how do sprints, middles, urbans etc fit into this scheme?

[awk]

And seemingly so simple - the more courses there are the better the event.
But how do sprints, middles, urbans etc fit into this scheme?

Exactly. Seemingly so simple, but actually doesn't cater for what is an increasing section of the fixtures programme.

The new scheme catered for progression of newcomers by extending colour system further into the regional structure. Other changes addressed other issues, e.g. enabling the tailoring of quality assurance to local needs.

I'd also suggest that if Brian has a problem with the grading of regional events, then he needs to talk to his region. Differentiating at regional level is up to them.

[distracted]

An excellent idea there of what Brian wants from his competition structure for classic cross-country based races.

Then he, and the rest of you, should be airing your views at the Competitions Survey

I decided to do what Brian has done, and have a quick perusal through the fixtures for the next few weekends. I was shocked to find 'Regional' events with 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 different courses. However, on a little less perusal - i.e. just looking at the event names rather than digging deeper... - I saw within that number a City Race, 2 Chasing Sprints, a Middle Race, Compass Sport Cup qualifiers, a Night Championship, a 'WM League event', a true 'Long Distance' event and some generic "Regional events" - but most of these had individual names, so I could presume that those are well-established and quality competitions.

So perhaps the problem Brian is encountering is in poor marketing from the hosting club - their event titles don't tell him enough about the event?

[Mrs H]

Absolutely agree Distracted - I've mentioned the increased importance of publicity in the new structure several times - both here and in my CS column - events need to be tempting in the new free market. If you've got oodles of courses, great terrain, grade 2 controller, new map, new area, anything at all out of the ordinary then shout it event tiers never were and never will be a guarantee of quality

[SJC]

If you've got oodles of courses, great terrain, grade 2 controller, new map, new area, anything at all out of the ordinary then shout it

Exactly. Register it as a Level 2 event so that we can all see it.

But please don't mix it in fixtures list at the same level as the run of the mill colour coded event on average terrain, using last year's map, and a grade 3 controller whose first event it is.

[pete.owens]

Yesterday I was planning one particular weekeend. I investigated 2 races advertised as Regional Events. One had 7 courses, the other 13 or so. This is clearly confusing nonsense

How so?

You will be only running ONE course at whatever event you turn up to (and if you have a choice of 7 there should be something to suit) If you normally run the recommended colour for M60 then there is very likely to be a BLUE course on offer at both events. Why would you be at all interested - let alone confused by whether other people at the event but not running your course are running on 6 different courses or 12 different ones?

and shows that in practice some clubs are promoting the old colour-coded (with perhaps limited quality) to Level 2.

That is because Level 2 has been set at a the level that most clubs were already running colour coded events - it is not a matter of "promoting" - that is exactly what level 2 is intended for.

The fact that they have registered it at level 2 means that there there is a standard of organisation you can expect

We need to get to a system where the active Orienteer as well as beginners know where they are. Link quality to the levels

Level 4 Local no age class. limited colour courses.
Level 3 Colour coded No age class, at least 7 courses. No quality guarantees.

You say you want to link quality to the level - then imediatly go on to sub-divide L3 of the new event structure - with your higher level having "No quality guarantees"

Level 2 Regional around 13 Colour-coded courses mapped onto age-classes. Updated map. Good terrain Good controller

Other than the fixation with the number of courses this pretty much covered by level 2 of the new event structure.

Level 1 Championship. Age class. As many courses as are required. First class map and terrain. Good controlling. Good assembly area atmosphere,etc.

The new disciplines of sprint, Middle, urban can presumably be mapped onto this structure.

Well no they can't really, since the main discriminating factor in your structure is "number of courses" and all these types of event - even for a major championship would not offer sufficient courses to get you above your level 4.
sprint and urban events at whatever level are run in areas that you would not normally think of as "good quality" terraine, while this is an essential requirement for middle distance - at whatever level.

A 4-tier structure much better reflects what clubs actually want to do on the ground in the Midlands.

Do they really want to organise lots of poor quality 7+ course colour coded events, with no controller, using pin punches, and copying courses from master maps?

What if clubs in different parts of the country wanted to discriminate their local events by some other criterion?