4 Levels

[Mrs H]

It is precisely the

precisely the what? (you don't think Awk shot him do you?)

[EddieH]

I was going to edit it out, but that would make your post incomprehensible Mrs H so I left it.

[distracted]

Let's turn this argument round a bit. Given people's views of what should go where vary so much, I'm going to ask:

Why does it matter - from both a club and competitor viewpoint - what level an event is registered at?

[Clive Coles]

As I have said before ~ it should be for the clubs to decide. They run the events, they provide the officals and volunteers who plan, control and run their fixtures. If the club members want more regional events by all means re-register your L3's as L2's.

But this is not yet happening ~ the heat generated by these posts is not representative of grass root concerns. Most club members just want a regular oppportunity to orienteer. So ~ it's still business as usual ~ District events live on.

You will find however that if the latest guidelines stimulate further interest, more regional events will be staged on an "entry on the day" basis and with a sub-set of the courses that are usually provided for new style regional events. If you turn up expecting a black course don't complain.

The good news is that entry fees will be lower than your normal regional event. District style events still in my view provide better value for the money.

I stood down from all BOF and Association commitments last May ~ I too was pee'd off with the way BOF were running things ~ I had had enough. I am now just an occasional club orienteer. It's reinvigorating to return to the backbenches

[Snail]

IThe review group (or whatever it was called) were suggesting that the old regional and District events should all become new Level 2 events, with the more informal club events being Level 3. The latest guidelines finally appear to be urging the same thing.

One logical way of achieving that would be to say that any event that is "open" to members of other/all clubs is automatically Level 2. That should broadly match with the requirements for external controllers etc. Level 3 would then effectively be restricted to club-only events.

That would:
- achieve the National / Regional / Club split;
- avoid ambiguity as to what level an event should be classified at;
- and prevent clubs from messing up regional finances by selecting the event level on financial grounds.

[NeilC]

Let's turn this argument round a bit. Given people's views of what should go where vary so much, I'm going to ask:

Why does it matter - from both a club and competitor viewpoint - what level an event is registered at?

For a club not really - there is still the temptation to register an event intended for a regional or wider audience at level 3 to avoid the need for a controller/embargo. The incentive to register at level 2 is there if the association demands this in order to bolt a competition onto that event. Or if there is demand from the competitor

For the competitor then incentive schemes come into play. Level 1 for championship etc awards, Level 2 for ranking points.

[Gross]

For a club not really - there is still the temptation to register an event intended for a regional or wider audience at level 3 to avoid the need for a controller/embargo

Then ultimately the quality is going to nose dive

[awk]

EddieH: that's an SOA problem, not a BOF one, and needs to be sorted locally.

For a club not really - there is still the temptation to register an event intended for a regional or wider audience at level 3 to avoid the need for a controller/embargo.

Except there is no embargo issue now, unless the region or club wishes to have one. If people go to an L3 then they know that some standards may be lower because of controllers or whatever, so to my mind not a problem. The registering of events at a lower level than perhaps they would normally be is nothing new and certainly not unique to the new system - all it tells people is that the event is likely to be a lower standard. The only events that will transcend that are those that have their own brand, and I don't really see that as a problem, as the only danger about reducing the standard of officials is the reduced impact of that brand.

Then ultimately the quality is going to nose dive

No, not really. The standard at both L2 and L3 remain the same. People are registering at L3 because they can't hit the standard at L2. That's not a dropping of standards, rather them being upheld.

[EddieH]

Sean, does your club seriously put on loads of events open only to your own club?

We put on loads of proper level 3 events, but other club members are always welcome, so I cannot imagine many events registered for your new lower tier.

[pete.owens]

(1) The colour coded with seberal courses, a premarked, bagged maps (in many cases [in my clubs case currently all] revised within the previous 6 months), electronic punching, official controller etc. The effort required to put on such an event also makes it absolutely essential that there is some form of regional control to avoid fixture clashes.

Level 2

(2) The informal event - a couple of courses, possibly old map, pin punches / paper cups / no controller etc.

Level 3

[pete.owens]

I just wish that the system of Event classification is adjusted to reflect what clubs are actually prepared to put on. IMO L3 should to be split into 2 ~ If i suggest how these might be named it will probable stir up another hornets nest !

And the way to achieve that is to register those events above the point at which you think they should be split at Level 2.

To pick an example from the fixtures list:
the "Local Colour Coded & EA League" event at Swaffam on 28th of Feb looks like the sort of thing that you would expect to see at Level 2.

Whereas the "SUFFOC Come and Try It (CATI) Event" at Bridge Wood on the 23rd of May would be Level 3.

[seabird]

District style events still in my view provide better value for the money.

There is no reason why a Regional Event with 12 courses should cost any more than a Regional or Local (call it what you will) event with 7-8 courses, unless there are extraneous costs in staging the event, such as extra mapping costs or land access charges.

There have certainly been some events termed Regional where I have backed off entering because I feel the club are overcharging just because they are calling the event Regional.

I am firmly in the 3 Level camp. Brand Names, Pre-entry, Regional, as against Club, Leagues, and Number of Courses available are clear ways for the punters to differentiate event status within Level 2.

[EddieH]

The Scottish situation, (and quite possibly in other regions too,) is not a Scottish problem AWK. We'll live with whatever we get.

However if people get used to searching "regional" on the BOF database assuming other events will be very minor they're going to miss a great deal of quality orienteering. I.e. the system being implemented on a regional basis will mean that people will not know what to expect in other parts, just as before BOF stepped in wth quality standards what you got at club events across the country varied massively with particularly parents not having much idea what to expect for their children.

Additionally your committee did not have any remit regarding ranking. A national rankig list based on very different regional definitions of what constitutes a ranking event will not get a good reanking list. Quality individuals that are ranked lowly will tend to lower the points of others (particularly in major events where they are competing fully). However because of the number of people running this effect should be relatively slight. The converse is that Mr average orienteer runner is likely to be able to find 5 or 6 local familiar areas where he is able to produce high results that he i quite incapable of doing on unfamiliar technical terrain. Is it right that such a person should be able to be right up the rankings? I don't know it's a matter of opinion but I think not.

[SJC]

I am firmly in the 3 Level camp. Brand Names, Pre-entry, Regional, as against Club, Leagues, and Number of Courses available are clear ways for the punters to differentiate event status within Level 2.

If Level 2 = Brand Names, Pre-entry, Regional
then this still leaves the problem of the old District events with no brand name, entry on the day, but a full range of courses, being mixed in the fixture list at the same level as small local events with just a couple of courses and not much else.
This is what the introduction of a fourth level should fix.

[DavidJ]

then this still leaves the problem of the old District events with no brand name,

Then give them a brand. In South Central most clubs have 2 such events a year which have the brand 'SCOA League Event' which fit exactly your description. There has been a debate as to whether they are Level 2 or 3 but, to be honest, everyone local goes by the brand which has a generally good reputation. Its uncertain how many people are actually interested in the League but the events are popular and provide good competition. Whilst it might need a bit of explaining to newcomers, that will probably apply to any system. David