Area Champs 2010

[Snail]

Didn't you run for Scotland in the last 2 (?) SHIs?

Perhaps that's because Scotland need some acknowledged "southern" people to be able to win

[distracted]

Trust Nixon to misinterpret things... although I admit the point I was trying to make wasn't overly obvious, so some clarification:

People were arguing over the relatively minor point of who can/can't win trophies at these events. Yes it might encourage some people to attend/not attend, but that's going to be a small fraction of the potential competitor base. If we were more worried about getting the product right, then people are more likely to go because they know they're going to get a quality experience and enjoy the orienteering on offer.

So we'd be better off if people were discussing what they expect from such an event - both in and out of the forest - facilities, competition, quality etc. What more should we expect of these events over the standard 'regional' event? What's missing from these events at the moment?

[SeanC]

To be fair I thought MHarky's point was a good one. No harm in discussing the subject and there's plenty of threads/committees/groups etc discussing the other stuff.

Personally, if I've had a good run and have beaten people who normally beat me, then it's the competition that matters. If I've had a rubbish run, then what matters is the forest, course quality, atmosphere etc.

[Scott]

If I've had a rubbish run, then what matters is the forest, course quality, atmosphere etc.

And surely, more than anything else, the weather?

[mharky]

Eligibility Criteria to compete in the Home Internationals
To be eligible to represent a country in a Home International (HI) a person must be a current British Orienteering member and be:
* Eligible by Birth. Be born in that country OR
* Eligible by Parentage. Have a parent who was born in that country OR
* Eligible by Residence. Have established permanent residence in that country for at least one year.

The selectors would be pleased to hear from any potential team member who, having run for another nation, wishes to reinvigorate their international career running for England.

Looks like it's England are the ones who are in need of people to run for them to win...

[Wayward-O]

So we'd be better off if people were discussing what they expect from such an event ...

It should not be expected that designating an event as an Area championships will necessarily attract the quality and quantity of competitors required to justify the designation. Surely, the way to ensure the attendance is to use the best areas available in the Area at the best time(s) of the year, with new or comprehensively updated maps (first use) with well planned (best planners), well controlled courses and to publicise this. I.e. organise and advertise an event that will attract competitors, irrespective of the number of pots on offer. After all, most people have no expectation of winning one.

Not achieving the expected standard (i.e. not providing sufficient differential from lower tier events) could devalue the 'brand' and potentially affect attendance at future Area Championships.

[greywolf]

So we'd be better off if people were discussing what they expect from such an event - both in and out of the forest - facilities, competition, quality etc. What more should we expect of these events over the standard 'regional' event? What's missing from these events at the moment?

IMHO if Area Champs are to be more than hyped-up Regional events then they need to be guaranteed to be on top quality terrain (TD5), with proper length courses (with M21E EWT of 90 mins etc), and to be have a regular slot in the calendar.

Looking at the rules for Area Champs from 1/1/2011 onwards, it appears standards for minor issues such as terrain & planning are essentially optional, with "material provided for guidance and information" whereas the mandatory requirements focus on the really important things, like a compulsory 1:15,000 map scale for senior classes and a 24 month embargo

...and looking at the fixtures list it appears that the first Area Champs to be run under the 2011 rules will be in breach of them

[Gross]

I've won the Scottish champs, and I took home the Elite and SOA trophies, the first Scot got the Scottish Champion's trophy.

But it's not the Scottish Champion's trophy.... it's the Scottish Native Trophy.... seems sensible to me.... You want an Open Championship but you also want to recognize the best 'local' so you have the 'XXX Champion', the 'XXX Native Champion' and the XXXOA Champion'.... everyone wins.....

[Neil M40]

Distracted, I (mis)interpreted your earlier comment in the same way that Mharky did and would have made pretty much the same response. However I agree with the majority of your clarification – it is more important to get the quality of the races right because that is what will attract people to the races. But I am not concerned about getting numbers only – it is important that these races are recognised as the ones that are worth winning – that a win at the xxxx Champs National Event is worth more than a win at any L2 event. There should be 6 events a year where you can expect a good proportion of the best people in the class to attend, not just a large number of people in the class. A quality field as well as a quantity one.

The best people come because an event is worth winning. An event is worth winning because the best people come. Where do you start?

I am currently M40 Northern Champion, which is nice. I have a dented trophy on the dresser in the kitchen (I didn’t dent it – it’s very old and the top is not attached to the base). I am also aware that I didn’t need to do very much to get it – I was ill at the time, I had to stop for a sit down at one point, I was well beaten by a couple of anglo-scots, and the Spookster helpfully made a 6 minute error at the 2nd last so I could beat him by a few seconds (thanks Martin ). I was pleased to get the trophy but it has no relation to the quality of my run. I would rather the best person got something for winning.

SOA can do what they like. The event and the trophies clearly belong to them. For the English area champs ownership is not clear – there is no Northern OA, Southern OA, Midland OA, so it is reasonable (but not necessarily ideal) for BO to define the rules. However the National Event series does belong to BO – they can decide to award National Event trophies if they (we) want. Prizegivings are a pain anyway – let’s have an awards dinner at the end of the year, and all the other BOF awards (mapping, silva award, orienteer of the year) can be made and we can have a disco afterwards. Lovely.

[EddieH]

I agree Neil, and this seems to be one of Gross's genuine (non-stirring) posts.

By and large the trophies already exist, but it doesn't really matter if there are none. The point is that when I started orienteering, the British, the JK and the four regional championships were ndoubtedly the 6 competitions of the year, and a Midlands Championship title was something with status.

Maybe that cannot be recreated as status utimately comes about because the competitors make it so. However with no higher ranking weighting than a local regional bash round a well known TD4 area, AND with no status for winning one of these new events, the lielihood of this being achieved is seriously reduced.