Area Champs 2010

[NeilC]

It amses me that the rules for these events have just been published, long after two of the events are trading, and have presumably finalised planning and organisational details.

In fact the 2010 rules don't make any significant changes to the planning and organisational details. There are some more significant changes for the 2011 set of area champs and these rules have also been published - over a year in advance.

[mharky]

Look at how XC organises their regional championships, they know what they are doing.

[Spookster]

It amses me that the rules for these events have just been published, long after two of the events are trading, and have presumably finalised planning and organisational details.

Don't worry Eddie, relevant event officials have also been involved in the drafting or reviewing of these documents, and they have been at draft stage for several months, so there were no surprises once the final versions were officially published.

[madmike]

When did an event other than the British/JK last get 1000 plus? Just out of interest - don't see many of them nowadays.

Awk,
Southern Champs/Interland at Burnham Beeches Feb 2009. Would have cracked the 1000 even without Interland not that you'd have thought it looking at the entries with 3 weeks to go

[Clive Coles]

Very little has been made of the early suggestion :-

" Some have been put off by high entry costs relative to the standard regional events "

I still think this is a key consideration but not the whole picture.

When I used to attend Area championships and National events we had cheeper fuel and I was lucky enough to run a fully financed company car. Then (horay) retirement arrived ~ not complaining, but driving around the country to attend events makes a more significant dent in the budget than the entry fees alone. So.... you adopt a more critical view on what is value for money.

Within our ranks there are many who's incomes are being squeezed. Not just the 65+'s but also young families and (some) students. So we are all becoming more selective.

For those who don't know me, I have never aspired to be an age class champion. There are probably about 90% of orienteers who travel to Championship events with similar realism. We attend because we enjoy the challenge of competing on unfamiar terrain against our peer group. Pots and medalions are not for us. We are effectively there to make up the numbers. Being a Regional Champion therefore does not exercise a great pull for such folk to make the journey.

So if I am going to spend the time and money travelling the length of the country what's on offer needs to be a bit more special. That's where the traditional multi-day formats seem more attractive. By this I mean events such as the Scottish & Welsh 6 days, SINS. White Rose. OK ~ not so much prestige but just as much a challenge at times of the year where we might experience some sunshine !

With the reintroduction of full VAT rates, fuel prices look set to increase back towards former high levels. Perhaps we need to accept that a high proportion of our regular orienteers are content to attend events within a 100 mile radiius of where they live.

It is possibly too soon to predict that Area Championships will follow National events into our historical archives. I hope this does not happen ~ Championships do have a relevence for those who take their sport seriously.

Tweeking rules, making events open just however provide interesting fodder for cyclical inconclusive discussions. Market forces in the end will determine what fixtures are sustainable in the longer term.

[HOCOLITE]

I agree to some extent with Clive. I did colour coded at Beaudesert, as missed very early closing date and didn't think event or area special enough to warrent high fee plus travel. I enjoyed my LG course and it wasn't significantly different to my normal ageclass course. Have for the first time for a number of years seriously considered not doing JK because of entry fee plus accommodation and travel. I have in the past not done British for these reasons. It is a case of balancing costs against anticipated enjoyment. With the sprint at JK this adds an element as I quite like these courses.

[awk]

Another major factor in my opinion is the fact that the Area Championships are not 'Open' as they used to be in the old days.
.......
I personally would be in favour of making them all open.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure that we (Event Review group) didn't recommend this. I recall discussing it, and it being agreed that they should be open - but may be wrong. I certainly would have argued long and hard against them being closed, and don't recall having to make that argument.

In other words, I agree with you!

Incidentally, I''m fairly certain that the system in the 'old' days at the Scottish was that there was a Scottish Champion (winner of the class), and a Scottish 'Native' Champion (first Scot - however that was defined).

[graeme]

Scottish Champs' recursive eligibility rules haven't changed, I don't think SOA ever bought this new fangled "National Event" business. Wait long enough and you come back into fashion.

http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/so ... ships-soc/

Elsewise, it depends what you mean by "open". Anyone can run any course, the results show the fastest person in each age group as finishing first. Some age groups have trophies for the first Scot, others don't, often because they were taken away by someone who never came back.

In my opinion it is "open". I can run whatever course I choose (unlike the Swedish Champs, who wont let the British Champion run), I wont get segregated into some cr*ppy start block for being "foreign" (as the JK used to do), and if I win I'll get listed at the top of the results.

I wont be lauded or given a trophy as (e.g.) the Welsh Champion, but why should I be?

[EddieH]

I don't understand your meaning Graeme, but one thing is for sure. When National events came in the four regional championships including the Scottish changed from being open to closed events. I didn't like it at the time, but now with the attempt to make these the 3rd equal long distance status events it makes every bit of sense to revert.

[SJC]

When National events came in the four regional championships including the Scottish changed from being open to closed events. I didn't like it at the time, but now with the attempt to make these the 3rd equal long distance status events it makes every bit of sense to revert.

I disagree with this. There is already an Open Championship. It is called the British Championships. The (English) Area Championships are the next step doen in the competition structiure, fitting beteen the British and the various Regional Champioships.

[EddieH]

Fine SJC, but if so why are they really so much more important than any other event? I was always doubtful when National events came in but decided to give them my backing. I believe my doubts proved correct as they never really caught on in people's mind. The old regionals became parochial and in most cases were no longer even National events. What is there about suddenly calling them Level 1 that will catch the imagination of punters? - I don't see it.

I would be delighted to be proved wrong as I beleve these sort of competitions have great value. We'll have to wait and see.

Creating some sort of league like the Scottish O League might be a good start as it would give the events an entity and a purpose for many to go.

[andypat]

Isnt the league for these sort of events effectively the ranking list?

I dont understand the new ranking system (yet), but surely if certain events are to be considered more lofty (by BOF) they should attract more ranking points?

By the way the SOLS are great, but taking forward the argument of expenses, you'd need to make sure that there were sufficeint events near enough that the winner wasnt just the person who could afford to travel everywhere.

[frog]

I don't think many in our club (? any) pay much attention to the BOF ranking list. On the other hand if someone in the club won their age in the Scottish champs that would be cause for celebration. Maybe it's because Scotland is viewed as a country not an area so this is viewed as our national champs not an area event. Perhaps England needs 1 English event rather than 2, as perhaps being English champion would inspire people more than being South England champion or whatever the English areas are called.
It isn't closed as anyone can enter as Graeme said. You just can't win a trophy unless you are in some way Scottish.

[Neil M40]

It isn't closed as anyone can enter as Graeme said. You just can't win a trophy unless you are in some way Scottish.

In other words, the race is open but the Championship is closed. This gives the possibility (and frequent occurrence) of the winner of the championship not being the winner of the race, which some people find unsatisfactory.

There are two possible alternatives to the status quo

1. Make the race closed so that only those eligible to be champions are allowed to run. This is what happens at the British Champs (you have to be a BOF member to enter). So for the Northern Champs only members of NEOA, NWOA and YHOA would be allowed to run. I don't think anybody actually wants this, restricting the number of potential entrants.

2. Make the races open and the championships open, so anyone can enter and anyone can win.

For most people who are not going to feature near the top of the results these distinctions are fairly meaningless. I would prefer open championships where anyone can enter and anyone can win (like we had in the old days), but I can see that for most people this is not going to make a difference to whether or not they choose to go to the race.

[SJC]

1. Make the race closed so that only those eligible to be champions are allowed to run. This is what happens at the British Champs (you have to be a BOF member to enter).

but this is going to change in 2011, when the British Championships becomes open to members of other IOF countries to take part in as well. However you can only become the British Champion if you are British. i.e. an open event with a closed championship.