Sue Harvey MBE

[lindseyk]

Barbara Cartland would have been proud of the word-count but Simon’s mumping is, quite frankly, is the wrong section of the forum. The “Juniors” section might be more appropriate - Simon needs to grow up and move on. Or at least start a new thread with an appropriate heading.

Can the rest of us congratulate Sue, well done.

[DaveK]

I may just be naive, but I'm rather pleased that someone from the orienteering community has had their achievements recognised in this way? Is this really such a bad thing for the sport?

[Becks]

Lindsey K:

[graeme]

Like I already said, I'm delighted Sue got her gong.

Paradoxically, Simon's posts are the most interesting. The question of whether it's better to have poor maps than no maps at all is one which exercises us poor mappers
(and is currently being kicked around in another thread). Maybe the moderators can split the thread.

[Red Adder]

Anyone who looks back at some of the Compass Sports of the 1980's will find Mr Beck producing similar rants and rumbles. All very amusing but to blame people for raising the bar is just too stupid for words. I seem to remember that you soon got to know the good / questionable maps and mappers and orienteered as appropriate. Now that standard is generally higher we should be thanking the Harveys, other pros such as Stirlings and some of the notable amateurs who gave us lesser lights something to aspire too.

We should also (and here I think I agree with Simon) thankthe volunteers in all aspects of the sport, as they are the people who really make anything possible.

[SeanC]

The 1980's, that's a long time ago now.

You can probably look at every advance in the sport and point to negative consequences. Electronic punching: cost, increased complexity. Pre-marked maps at EOD events: maps running out etc etc. But we are a small sport competing with an increasing array of leisure activities, we must progress to compete IMHO. The issue seems to be really about helping clubs manage the change that innovations bring - getting the mapping strategy right being the example in point. How do we help our time poor club committees get their strategy right?

[seabird]

Arguments about what happened in the 1970s seem esoteric.

I only got into O and mapping at the tail end of the scribing era, pre-ocad and other technological advances. I certainly would never have undertaken scribing. I suspect the same would be true for many current mappers. To that extent Simon's comments, if I have undestood them at all, may have some merit.

However we are now we we are - with Computer mapping, GPS, Google Earth, Elgin etc - far removed from the issues of the 70s. Surveying and cartography are now more straightforward tasks than they were - albeit still pretty time-consuming.

The Harvey's book was an invaluable guide to surveying and still has a lot of relevance. For that alone I am grateful.

I am delighted that someone (even if someone I have never met) connected with orienteering has been awarded on honour for services to our sport.

[Gnitworp]

The Harvey's book was an invaluable guide to surveying and still has a lot of relevance. For that alone I am grateful.

So good no one has yet dared to try to improve on it. On field surveying, still definitive despite its age - remarkable.

[Big Jon]

Field survey hasn't changed much over the past 150 years let alone 30 years - for orienteering mapping the skills are still the same - notably the ability to select which features are and are not needed for a good map, then the ability to position them correctly on the map area (and even here GPS cannot really help much as the relative position is what is most important rather than the precise position) and finally, and most critically, the ability to "see" contour shapes and mark 3-d shapes with a series of 2d lines. All the technology in the world doesn't really help with any of these (apart from GPS helping to locate point features on a featureless slope - and who wants to have to find these in a race?) and so its no surprise to me that Robin's book is still the definitive bible for field survey.

[mharky]

What's the name of the book?

Reckon it's still available?

[andypat]

Herding cats?

[awk]

What disappoints me is the rarity of such awards in sports such as orienteering. The volunteer effort is enormous, the standards reached are very high, but, for instance, whilst some world champions earn MBEs, others don't. Yet very often the level of commitment is, if anything, the other way round. After all, isn't there an element of Jensen Button just doing his very well paid job?

[Gnitworp]

What's the name of the book?

Reckon it's still available?

Mapmaking for Orienteers
by Robin Harvey
I have the 3rd Edition published by BOF in 1985 and printed by Harvey Map Services Ltd

[mike g]

What's the name of the book?

Reckon it's still available?

Mapmaking for Orienteers.

A few second hand copies are available on Amazon. I've just ordered one.

[graeme]

...the rarity of such awards in sports such as orienteering.

I wonder how much this has to do with nomination...

It's no more work than nominating for those BOF awards... but I've never done it.
Has anyone?