Regional Events - Have we got it right

[brooner]

As I said in another thread long long ago

"I just want to go orienteering"

Who cares what the classification of an event is? Who cares if it has age classes? If you want to run against your peers, ask them what course they are running and run that one. Make a decision on whether to go to an event based on the quality of the terrain, distance to travel, quality of the competition(as in the other people running), availability etc, not the classification of the event which in most cases is probably set to what it is to avoid doing some BO(F) paperwork*

*this might not actually be true, I have no idea as I don't organise events.

Pretty much all this, and yes as someone who occasionally organises events* they're usually classified as they are to avoid doing paperwork and avoid paying excessive levies.

* speaking of which, Purple Thistle 2010 - August 14/15 2010, I have no idea what classification it'll be, but it won't have age classes, it will have great terrain, might be quite a distance to travel but should provide some decent competition.

[seabird]

There is no extra paperwork involved, whether an event is called Local or Regional.

However I understand some clubs using Forestry Enterprise land are calling their old colour coded events (7-8 courses) Local, whereas other clubs with no FE areas are calling these events Regional. The difference is entirely because, as I understand it, FE charge more for land access for Regional events.

My club does not have these problems - hence our ability to stage £4.50 Regional Events under the new guidelines. The price is the giveaway that these are not necessarily on our very best areas.

There may be other explanations as to why this variation exists elsewhere.

[Scott]

There is no extra paperwork involved, whether an event is called Local or Regional.

And nor is there any difference in (BOF) levy. Availability of a Grade 2 controller and the requirement for a 12-month embargo are the normal barriers to registering a suitable event as Regional (L2) instead of Local (L3), but for the moment those rules have been (temporarily) suspended.

[SJC]

Make a decision on whether to go to an event based on ....... the quality of the competition(as in the other people running)

.

But which other people will be running ? You don' know that until you get to the event, and the people that turn up will often do so based on the classification of the event.

[awk]

But which other people will be running ? You don' know that until you get to the event, and the people that turn up will often do so based on the classification of the event.

Of course you know, at least for the equivalent of the old regional events. Most do pre-entry, and entries for those are listed on the entries website. I use them all the time to get an idea of where the best competition is going to be.

I read the CS article with some interest, and there were valid points made. What I think is missing is the regional association input, at least in England. In Scotland, the SOL has provided just the sort of competition that the survey/petition organisers want (as far as I can see). So, all it needs is for other associations to set up their versions, which can then account for more localised needs - bigger associations might want 5-year age bands, but in YHOA, for instance, I reckon 10-year bands would be better, and in others it might be the simpler Vets/Super-vet structures used in urban races.

Much better, this, than have a homogenous and largely meaningless set of 36 vets classes, limiting choice and making a mockery of the word competition.

BTW, Gnitworp, as an M50, I don't find it embarrassing being beaten by an older orienteer - some of my best races are against them (and also against those much younger and those of the other gender too!).

[EddieH]

Andy wrote

"Who cares what the classification of an event is? Who cares if it has age classes?"

You may see all events as the same, but NO serious sportsman does.

The Olympic 100m is no different from any other tartan track 100m - it is simply that it IS the Olympics that makes it meaningful, and all that meaning is purely in the mind of each and every person.

Last year the "British Cmapionships" took place outof season on a very compromised (by permissions) area of the New Forest. It was never going to be the best quality, most pleasant weather event of the year, or anywhere close. However it was nominated as the British Championships and the entry numbers prove beyond any doubt that this fact DOES motivate people - I am always gratified by how the big events still attract people that are not likely to feature in the top end of the results (without them victories would appear less meritricious )

I am sure that for many people that are unable to feature highly in the major events the old regional structure did provide a similar "important" status that motivated them to perform at a different level.

I don't think there is any intention to stop this with the changes, but only time will tell whether LOT's interpretation of the new regional events will be held by enough of the old guard to maybe see a big leakage of them out of the sport.

[Gnitworp]

BTW, Gnitworp, as an M50, I don't find it embarrassing being beaten by an older orienteer

Pity

[andy]

Andy wrote

"Who cares what the classification of an event is? Who cares if it has age classes?"

...British Champs...

I'm not talking about the British Champs / JK here, I'm talking about a colour coded vs a badge class-based event. the British is never going to become a colour coded event, it's too big. The distinction we're 'arguing' about is at a lower level. Would you travel to a 'SOL' in the south of scotland? yes, you probably would. But would you travel to a SoSOL on the same area, I doubt it. And the reason is nothing but the level of the competition, because for a non-M21 (essentially) the courses available will be the same, if the runner so desires.

[graeme]

"important" status

This is the rub of it. Below Championship level, what makes an event important?

For me, around here, the best competition is at SoSoLs, where everyone of my standard runs the same class. On second-rate areas, often with out of date maps and novice planners. Mistakes cost places, as they should.

The best events are the SOLs, but whatever course I run my peers are scattered across a bunch of other courses. Mistakes seldom cost much in the way of places, and the series points depend much more on who happens to show up than how well I run. The courses are generally well planned on top-notch areas, and new maps by the top mappers.

So there's nothing I treat as important. This year only BOC, British Sprint, Scottish, VHI and various relays.

True, nothing much has changed with the new structure, but it does at least give the option of events with all the best people on the same course on the best terrain.


* I'll stick with runners, since I suspect that league footballers for example do see all events as "the same".

[awk]

I am sure that for many people that are unable to feature highly in the major events the old regional structure did provide a similar "important" status that motivated them to perform at a different level.

And the regions can do something about it, just as the SOA has.

[andypat]

I've kind of missed the boat in responding to Graeme's previous posting, but i wasnt in any way belittling the JOK chasing sprint, more trying to illustrate how illogical the regional vs local event structure seems from the outside.

IN fact youve convinced me to go for the Edinburgh weekend. Now just got to convince Mrs Pat!

[Roger]

... I am always gratified by how the big events still attract people that are not likely to feature in the top end of the results (without them victories would appear less meritricious )

I understand what you're getting at Eddie, but I think that 'merit-worthy' rather than meritricious / meretricious is the word you're after...

[Scott]

Meritorious?

[EddieH]

Oh Roger you are so right. Don't like getting my language so badly wrong

[Sunlit Forres]

Am I alone in thinking it's a bit strange that BOF have categorised events as Level 1, 2 and 3 but when you go to the fixtures list you have to search for international, national, regional or local?

I'm fixtures sec for our club. I only have the option of selecting 'local' when registering a new fixture. So, unless an event gets the sanction of some higher authority, then that's always going to be how our events will appear on the fixtures list. irrespective of whether we offer 2 courses, 8 couses, age group competion or whatever it'll be just another 'local'.

If BOF aren't going to stick with cat 1 2 and 3, I can't for the life of me think why thay can't add a new category called 'district', so that at club level we can differentiate a bit more. If that enlightened move was possible we'd quite like to classify our forthcoming event at Darnaway on 7th Feb as something a bit more attractive. A world class area (with world class planning when I get round to it) and knowing the organsier I suspect some pretty decent organising too.

Apart from this I can't see a lot wrong with the new event structure. Enter what course you like and so long as you know what course to enter for age group competition than that's fine. If the course is enjoyable and fair then that's good enough for me.
Personally, I think there are too many people in orienteering who seem to want the sport to be run to suit their own idiosynchracies. I know it's not practical but sometimes I wish we could just all pitch up and run the same course.