Posting Routegadget routes going through OOB

[Adventure Racer]

I see there are a few now up from Cambridge (I'm naming no names). I'd imagine the people involved really did go the way they've put and simply didn't realise it was OOB at the time or when posting their routes (it wasn't that obvious either from the map or on the ground).

[Roger]

I've just posted a route that goes through a building -- omitted to retrace the three sides of a rectangle that were necessary to extract myself from 143 and instead, thinking that that bit of the route was already drawn, clicked straight into Pembroke. In reality, "leaps tall buildings in a single bound" isn't one of my attributes.

I did yell at someone in front of me that the grass he was just going onto was out of bounds. He complied sufficiently quickly that I suspect he knew. I then passed him and navigated swiftly and accurately to the next control, only to find him ahead of me. Hmmm.

[Scott]

Only tenuously related... despite having gone back over the course a couple of times, I didn't spot the southerly route from 22-23 on the Men's Open until I checked RG. I know my eyesight isn't the greatest, but even sitting at my desk I can only just make out the tiny bit of thinner "edge of canopy" in the middle of the thicker ("edge of building"?) - and presumably uncrossable - black line, showing that you can get out of the tunnel northwards.

canopy.jpg (119.9 KiB) Viewed 5115 times

I think someone on here has already suggested getting rid of the black line around the edge of canopies...

[Blanka]

The question is can you disqualify someone after the event if they draw an illegal route on routegadget? Would you expect a controller to trawl through all the routes that have been put up though?

And surely if you have gone an illegal way you wouldn't be stupid enough to post it on a public site or you would at least modify it? (I saw Robert Campbell, 9th on M Open, jump the uncrossable fence on his way to number 1, whilst I went all the way to the end of it, and suspect that he wouldn't put his route up).

[graeme]

The question is can you disqualify someone after the event if they draw an illegal route on routegadget? Would you expect a controller to trawl through all the routes that have been put up though?

No, because you don't know who posted the route. But if it is clear to the controller that someone has gained time from an illegal route, then they should be DQ'ed. Sometimes you can figure this out from the splits.

http://www.rstrain.ndtilda.co.uk/result ... es_sat.htm

[andypat]

I did yell at someone in front of me that the grass he was just going onto was out of bounds. He complied sufficiently quickly that I suspect he knew. I then passed him and navigated swiftly and accurately to the next control, only to find him ahead of me. Hmmm.

I'm of the opinion that the planner has to take some of the responsibility to avoid this type of thing. Its similar to the discussion on here earlier about SSSI. If the optimal route goes through an area which isnt obviously uncrossable (in this case nice runnable grass) then was this really the best leg. Human error (nature) will always lead to this sort of thing.

I work in the field of health and safety and if people kept being injured by falling down a pothole despite a big sign warning of it, I'd be suggesting we divert people a different way until it was filled in!

[Mrs H]

In this case avoiding the possibility of tempting grass would have rendered the event impossible to stage but as far as I'm aware everyone was clear;ly informed that all the grass areas within the colleges was very definitely OOB on pain of being chased by an angry porter - numbers taken and disqualifications made - I wonder if anyone was disciplined - i heard one marshall say they had taken a number down of someone she thought she recognised - but they are still in the results.

[andypat]

I thought Orienteering where you are only supposed to go on the paths was called a white course?

Seriously though if the potential for "cheating" or making that sort of error and getting away with it is that high was it really the best area for orienteering on?

Have now looked at the map on routegadget - fair enough - the planner isnt left with much option on that one. Maybe the solution is the use of mass GPS devices to check the legality of the route choices in that sort of event - yes - I know we cant afford it though!

[Mrs H]

Andypat - have you ever done an urban race - the possibility of cheating is extremely high given the number of uncrossable features which are not to be crossed but perfectly capable of being crossed. Marshalling and trust (and a judicial look at the splits) are the only way of policing it - disqualifing those caught is a good way of bringing the message home to those who may feel tempted.

....and yes it was an exceptionally good area for orienteering on and far from a white course.

If you have not yet tried urban orienteering i suggest you do forthwith

[AndyC]

Confession time for me;
Reviewing the Urban Race at the October Oddyssey I realised that I had crossed an "uncrossable wall" shown by a black line on the map -trouble was I'd jumped the wall without breaking stride -so (as anyone who has seen me run can vouch) it can't have been that high!
Now should I post the route I actually took or the route I should have taken?

[King Penguin]

Different event, same weekend - I presume the field corner between 5 and 6 on Brown at the CSC Final was OK even though marked as cultivated land and the red line was bent round it, as it did not have the red overprint which the OOB fields did ?
I didn't run Brown, just curious having seen the map.

[frog]

I often can't completely remember how I got from one control to another, especially if doing it a few days after the event at work without the map next to me so could inadvertantly draw myself going out of bounds when I hadn't.

[geomorph]

Different event, same weekend - I presume the field corner between 5 and 6 on Brown at the CSC Final was OK even though marked as cultivated land and the red line was bent round it, as it did not have the red overprint which the OOB fields did ?
I didn't run Brown, just curious having seen the map.

There was clear instruction at start that the oob overprint for those fields was deliberately short of the field edge because the edges were grassed over and LEI believed they had permission to use them.

A couple of runners were accosted by workers in a field who believed they were 'trespassing' but that turned out to be a communication issue as the field was 'sub-let' to a sub-let, and the owner had given permission but not talked onwards. Complicated lesson learned

[AndyC]

I think someone was DQ'd at this years JK for jumping over an uncrossable wall next to the Controller (complete with camera).

BTB a certain member of this site who had something to do with the JK and Phoenix arrangements crossed an OOB area during the latter event but I can't say who because he has unflattering photos of me.

[Oldman]

I am confused by something here (may be my age ).

On Sprint spec maps, you should be disqualified if you cross an uncrossable wall or fence (marked with thicker black lines, I think).

However, on ordinary maps I thought that walls marked with the double blob symbol or fences with the double stroke on them were an indication of "difficult to cross" rather than illegal to cross. ie uncrossable meant "very difficult to cross" rather than "cross and you should be disqualified".

If you would get disqualified by crossing such a fence or wall at an unmarked point, it would be overprinted with purple along its length to say so.

So, my question is, assuming you are not entering an OOB area, if you cross an uncrossable fence or wall (double ticks or blobs) that is not overprinted in purple, should you be disqualified? If so, should the wall or fence not be described as "must not be crossed" rather than the more common "uncrossable".