CompassSport Cup Final

[RJ]

......that the planner did well to make an interesting course (Green Men) out of an area with many constraints.....

Can't agree with you there. I thought the course struggled to provide a good challenge, with a mixture of orange and light green legs, and a heck of a lot of track/road running. Never mind! The area never was going to provide anything else..... and one has to ask whether this is what we want for a National Final. Perhaps the consensus says yes, and my expectations are just based on what I am used to having week in week out!

The event started life as an L1 event. What do we expect from one of those? What is the event review all about if not to make those decisions?????

[Adventure Racer]

I thought the course struggled to provide a good challenge, with a mixture of orange and light green legs, and a heck of a lot of track/road running. Never mind! The area never was going to provide anything else.....

Well as mentioned above, I didn't do huge amounts of track running, and indeed proved that running straight through the light/medium green was quicker than running round. Either Green was very different to Brown or you were making the wrong route choices!

BTW, you do know that nothing on that map should have been more than a light green control, given it's not really a TD5 area?

[Adventure Racer]

One very slight niggle with the map regarding the green screen with white stripes - are the stripes meant to indicate the more runnable direction or is it just a generic indication of non-uniform runnability? In the block just South of the Finish the runnable lanes seemed to me to be more or less parallel to the railway.

Though if I'm going to have a niggle, it's about the mapping, not the planning. Yes the stripes are meant to indicate the runnable direction - if you look at the key on the Fineshade map, there is a box which says "forest; direction of planting", though ironically enough the box is white rather than green with stripes! Parallel to the railway makes a lot more sense than the mapped direction, which isn't parallel to an edge of that block. All becomes clear though when you check out the other block with green and white stripes - in that case the stripes are parallel to an edge of the block, and surprise surprise, the stripes are also parallel to the block south of the finish, which makes it pretty clear what's happened here.

Whilst I'm having my Nopesport moan, the block to the SE of that is mapped as "rough open with scattered trees, slow run undergrowth", yet has stands of thin trees so close together you have to duck and dive just to walk through. Yes I know now I should have run round, but should I have been penalised by what is surely incorrect mapping for choosing to go straight? Also, when I missed to the W at 9 on Brown, I found a distinct dark green vegetation change in the woods which definitely isn't as mapped (and looks enough like the mapped boundary leading into the control to make life very confusing).

Didn't really spoil my run a huge amount (mostly it was just penalising me more for mistakes I'd already made), but surely stuff like this should be done right?

[Mr Chips]

The area never was going to provide anything else.

I think that is what I was trying to say, though with a different emphasis.

... a heck of a lot of track/road running.

I ran legs 5-6, 7-8 and 11-12 predominantly on tracks; 8-9 was 50-50 and provided interesting route choice; the remaining 9 legs had good non-track route choices, one of which I regret not taking (S-1) and one which I regret taking (3-4) having emerged with minor scalp wounds although it was a good choice in terms of time.

[Mr Chips]

if you look at the key on the Fineshade map, there is a box which says "forest; direction of planting", though ironically enough the box is white rather than green with stripes!

Ha! I didn't notice that. The other slightly comical effect is the way the white stripes overlay the contours so that the contours through these areas could be mistaken for paths in poor light - or at least that's my excuse!

[SYO Member]

Adventure, you ask whether you should "have been penalised by what is surely incorrect mapping for choosing to go straight?"

The answer is yes you were penalised, even though the area you are criticizing definitely is classic Rough Open with scattered trees.

How do I know? Because I've looked on Microsoft Earth where although the photos, like Googles's are up to 10 years old, and this is how it was then. Too many trees for them to be individually mapped, but not enough trees to have it white or with a green screen.

You must have just picked the wrong line across the area because there only seems to be one part where there are 4 or 5 adjacent trees. The fact that there was an undergrowth screen is irrelevant, but surely that would have deterred you from using this route in the first place?

Although I was not on Brown, I thought the map was perfectly OK and can't see any need to have a go at the mapper.

In addition to this one, all the other moans on here relating to the CSC have turned out to be unjustified due to uninformed opinion, i.e. the area (which I was told was not the original choice, but there were problems with other areas), the alleged high entry fees and the SYO start times.

Well done to LEI for putting on the event. Everything seemed to go OK on the day.

[geomorph]

I often find that my runability differs from that of the mapper; its a personal thing due to my capabilities, and not necessarily mapping 'error'.

At Fineshade I found several LG areas that for me were white and several white areas that for me were LG verging on MG.

The former were fast cos I do quite well ducking and minor weaving provided there are no thorns. The latter were slow because of the brashings/fallen trees/long grass hidding them - poor footing visibility plus regular weaving. Any thorny area generally tends to be slower than mapped.

The disputed green stripe area was fast to me - entry with stripe exit orthogonal - but easily crouchable and a run at 80%+. A champion-speed runner may disagree but in denser woods their top speed may not be possible because of the shortened reaction time to vegetation proximity (sometimes it pays to be a slower runner).

Rough open came in three types; fast medium and slow, again due to footing visibility.

This is only important in my race when the later blocks of a multi-block route choice of the same mapped runnability are actual geomorph-constrained, and the first one was not.

The temptation would be to run the path route in order to avoid the risk. The enjoyment is better off-track even if the leg speed costs.

[Adventure Racer]

You must have just picked the wrong line across the area

I'm confused. If the map was above criticism and the block in question was completely uniformly mapped, then how could there have been a "wrong line" across it? Since I'm obviously less experienced than you at these things, any tips on picking the "right line" across such a block?

Then again, are you sure you're actually looking at the right block with your aerial map? this is the block in question, and there's definitely more than just scattered trees there (look to the top left of that view for an example of that).

The fact that there was an undergrowth screen is irrelevant, but surely that would have deterred you from using this route in the first place?

Given a "slow run" screen, why exactly should that deter me from using a route?

Although I was not on Brown, I thought the map was perfectly OK and can't see any need to have a go at the mapper.

Not even the originally mentioned block of striped green, where you can tell even with your preferred aerial photo method of mapping that the lines are in the wrong direction? Then again if I'm understanding you correctly, your assertion is that because you didn't come across any areas incorrectly mapped on your course that I must be wrong about places where I went but you didn't being incorrectly mapped (based on the latest BOF recommended method of mapping from aerial photos rather than relying on what you find on the ground?)

In addition to this one, all the other moans on here relating to the CSC have turned out to be unjustified due to uninformed opinion, i.e. ... the SYO start times.

So we all imagined it that SYO had 4 of the last 8 starts on Brown?

[RJ]

....So we all imagined it that SYO had 4 of the last 8 starts on Brown?

CSC final at Fineshade, not the most amazing area in the UK, or probably even in LEI, but a good hard race nonetheless. Decided to run after a bit of prodding from Kim's magic fingers, and the hip felt pretty good once I had gotten going. Ran scared with Ralph just a minute behind, and managed to catch Rob up after a dodgy control site about half way round. We pushed ourselves along nicely, and together with Craney who was chasing us down, managed to secure an SYO 1,2,3 in men's open. A good team performance meant that SYO could take the overall victory again!

So that's how its done!!

7.2 Conduct During The Event
7.2.3 Competitors shall not collaborate in any way unless members of a pair or group
competing together.
7.2.4 Individual competitors shall not intentionally run with, or behind, other competitors in order to profit from their skill.

With Oli Johnson, Rob Baker and Matt Crane disqualified the results look a little different!

[buzz]

Yes, antihistamine is probably best (and it eventually worked for Lesley).

I felt like the local chemist dispensing several doses of ibuprofen as well as antistamine to club mates - no doubt there's several more BOF rule that I broke - helping fellow competitors - dealing drugs etc...

[Blanka]

Yes, antihistamine is probably best (and it eventually worked for Lesley).

I felt like the local chemist dispensing several doses of ibuprofen as well as antistamine to club mates - no doubt there's several more BOF rule that I broke - helping fellow competitors - dealing drugs etc...

I once went to the first aid people to ask for some antihistamine cream (or tablets) at an orienteering event (I think it was the Springtime in Shropshire) to relieve the nettle stings and was told that they're not allowed to give me any because of H & S. Which does beg the question of what is the point of there being first aiders at events if they're not actually allowed to provide any first aid beyond sticking plasters on grazes?

[Gross]

was told that they're not allowed to give me any because of H & S. Which does beg the question of what is the point of there being first aiders at events if they're not actually allowed to provide any first aid beyond sticking plasters on grazes?

Which is why I've never bothered with the BOF Coaching structure & it's requirement for a 1st Aid certificate..... what's the point of having a certificate that lets you do nothing but as an individual I can do as I like?

[RJ]

..... what's the point of having a certificate that lets you do nothing but as an individual I can do as I like?

And get seriously sued if something goes wrong.It is classed as assault!!

[Gross]

If someone in orienteering sues someone for trying to help them... then it is indeed a very sad world we live in....

[RJ]

Indeed Gross.

However, tubes of cream are a nightmare. When you last used the tube it may have become infected with something. Then when treating someone new at a later time the chances of getting an infection into the perfect open wound and bloodstream is very high. Quite why you can't get small tubes of the stuff though, just to provide a single application. Market opportunity??