Ordnance Survey offers free use of map data

[Wayward-O]

Anyone else seen this?

http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer- ... s-free-map

Not sure whether the available data will be detailed enough or whether orienteering would qualify for free use:

So users will have to pay for the use of data from which they are then directly making money, for instance by charging for a service.

I'm sure that competitors pay for the run, not the map (sometimes they are collected in for recycling!). Anyway, even if we don't qualify yet, it's definitely a step in the right direction.

[mharky]

I'm sure that competitors pay for the run, not the map

So are you suggesting all mappers work for free?

Have you seen what happens when club members map for free? You get a crap map, trust me, I've made 'em.

There is a reason why the word professional is synonymous with good and amateur is synonymous with bad...

With urban maps it's OK, punters generally can't get much wrong with surveying, especially when you have the OS data. Their cartography often leaves a lot to be desired though.

But when you get forest maps made on the cheap it's not good. Because once the map has been made the club won't really go back and map it again. How many crap maps are their floating around that really need a good seeing to, but are never actually going to get it? A lot.

Clubs obviously don't like to spend money on making a good map unless they are gonna get a return by using it in a major race. That means that many of the smaller maps in Britain are sub-standard. The JK, for example, is a great opportunity to pay for a good map (sometimes you don't always get one though, eh).

There should be some sort of mappers guild, and only certified members are allowed to make BOF registered IOF standard maps.

[gg]

Thats actually not a bad idea Mharky!

Anyone find a way to get a decent level of data off that new OS service? I can only see street level detail, nothing suitable for mapping anyway...

[Wayward-O]

Mharky

I'm not inferring that maps should be produced for nowt. I am, though, upset that OS would appear to be charging Brit-O for each map issued, whether explicitly based on original OS data or not, as described in the current issue of Focus on page 27. Now in a change of position, OS are allowing their map data to be used for free, unless money is being made directly from the information.

Given this change, the publication of orienteering maps on websites, including RouteGadget, should be poissible without charge - unless these are downloadable for a fee, as in the case of some maps for permanent orienteering courses.

Can it be argued that no money is being made directly from the maps used at orienteering events (and indeed that there is an incurred cost associated with their production) and hence no fee payable to OS, whether the map was based on OS data or not? I.e. the competitor is paying to compete at the event and the physical map is being provided to enable this, even if an appreciable part of the fee paid is used to reimburse the mapping and production costs.

[EddieH]

What about the sale of spare maps at events?

How right you are Mharky about the problem of simply updating maps which have never been surveyed very well. Regarding the JK I registered this problem this year, and told Mr Hamilton (indirectly as he wasn't there that day) that I thought that BOF were maing a mistake claiming the JK as their great prestige event, yet not paying to produce proper internationa standard maps. To be fair I was told that he was already fully aware of this problem and did not intend to let it happen again - however this year the NE stood in to put the event on at late notice, with an even later finalisation of the areas, for which we should be very grateful to them.

[mharky]

The maps weren't NE's fault.

I have heard rumors that all the good mappers were fully booked. If that happened to me then I would bring in someone from Europe to do the job. Czech mappers are amongst the best in the world, and they would charge less which would balance the fact you have to fly them over.

[EddieH]

"The maps weren't NE's fault"

I hope I made it clear that I was not blaming them either. I am really grateful that they stood in and put the event on.

[AndyC]

If you think the JK map was bad you should try the other map prepared for it -again professionally mapped and with rides that join up on the map but don't on the ground.

[graeme]

Have you seen what happens when club members map for free? You get a crap map, trust me, I've made 'em.

Snap.
And the really dangerous thing is when people come back and say nice things about your map (because most people are nice), and you get the idea you're good at mapping.

There should be some sort of mappers guild, and only certified members are allowed to make BOF registered IOF standard maps.

A very good idea. As long as you can only get in by actually making good non-urban maps* rather than attending a mapper's course or charging money. I think "BOF registered" is setting the barrier too high - should be no problem having amateur mapping for local events.

At the moment, only mappers approved by the Map Coordinator get to make SOA maps, but the Map Coordinator chooses these people purely on personal prejudice, which can't be the way forward.

* Even urban surveying is only easy if its flat and there are good basemaps. Getting contours right in built up area is not easy, and good cartography in detailed areas is really challenging.

[Adrian]

Have you seen what happens when club members map for free? You get a crap map, trust me, I've made 'em.

There is a reason why the word professional is synonymous with good and amateur is synonymous with bad...

Although your generalisation makes sense, there are of course exceptions. Here in HOC we're lucky to have very able "in-house" mappers. And no names, no pack drill, but I can show you some "professionally" produced maps that should never have been published.

[mharky]

and these people would obviously be thrown out of the map-makers guild

[roadrunner]

I'm with Graeme on this one. Top class events should have top class maps - no argument.

But I think it's vital to allow amateur mapping at local events, as he suggests, for two reasons:

• Clubs won't be able to afford to pay the registered mappers to map every area (and the registered mappers probably wouldn't have the time to map them anyway)
• If mappers can't get experience in this way, how will we get new registered mappers?

I also think that any registration system has to allow for qualified foreign mappers - as mharky says, these can be just as good as our own.

[mharky]

I was actually joking when I said that, by the way. But I was making a serious point about how there are a lot of poor quality maps out there made in the name of budget.

[Adventure Racer]

There is a reason why the word professional is synonymous with good and amateur is synonymous with bad...

Although your generalisation makes sense, there are of course exceptions. Here in HOC we're lucky to have very able "in-house" mappers.

Though given that in today's world the pro/amateur distinction usually means the amateur has a real job, hence less time to spend on their amateur pursuits, it's worth pointing out that the most obvious candidates I can think you're referring to don't have a real job anymore (apologies for accidentally maligning any excellent HOC mapper who does have a real job). In this case being amateur can actually be an advantage since they can afford to spend longer on making the map than a pro can.

[madmike]

"In this case being amateur can actually be an advantage since they can afford to spend longer on making the map than a pro can"


Adventure Racer - you are spot on here; which is why good amateurs mappers often make better maps than professionals trying to make a living from the activity.

I've run on excellent maps made by both pros and amateurs and also on rubbish maps produced by both pros and amateurs......