Rankings Consultation

[awk]

Totally agree Scott, which is pretty much what I said in my feedback. But, as I also said, it is moving that way, and that's something that needs to be recognised. To my mind, the suitability for the national rankings (even if not the right style to be included) could provide a useful benchmark for clubs deciding whether to have at L2 or L3? They (fixtures/rules) will have to loosen up on that Grade 2 controller rule though!!

[SJC]

L2 - co-ordination at regional level, with regional secs liaising with neighbouring associations.

Liaising with neighbouring associations might sound a trivial task, but with the East and West Midlands both bordering on multiple associations co-ordination is anything but simple. West Midlands probably has the worst problem, with seven neighbours to worry about (South West, South Central, East Anglia, East Midlands, Wales, North West and Yorkshire).

This is why the National Fixtures meeting is needed.

[Mrs H]

East anglia Yorkshire Is this the same West midlands i live in?

[mharky]

[awk]

L2 - co-ordination at regional level, with regional secs liaising with neighbouring associations.

Liaising with neighbouring associations might sound a trivial task, but with the East and West Midlands both bordering on multiple associations co-ordination is anything but simple.... This is why the National Fixtures meeting is needed.

I agree the job is not trivial, and will be bigger for some associations than others, but for almost all L2s I don't see why a full meeting of a national fixtures committee would be needed: does it really require the SE/SW/SC secretaries to be involved in a YH/NE border discussion (which would often be resolved by club secs talking rather than even their regional secs? National committee should at this level be simply an arbitration body if the association secretaries can't agree, and even then, the issues should normally be sorted before they even happen by the secretaries having ready access to a forward planning list and exchanging provisional lists between themselves, which already happens surely.

[SJC]

East anglia Yorkshire Is this the same West midlands i live in?

It certainly us.

The BOF map is too simplistic.

Northamptonshire is split three ways between Leicester, South Midlands and OD, whilst South Yorkshire have in the past annexed parts of the Peak District which lie in Derbyshire.

[Spookster]

East anglia Yorkshire Is this the same West midlands i live in?

It certainly us.

The BOF map is too simplistic.

Northamptonshire is split three ways between Leicester, South Midlands and OD, whilst South Yorkshire have in the past annexed parts of the Peak District which lie in Derbyshire.

SYO has Burbage, Blacka and Ramsley Moor all in the Peak District (two are in Derbyshire), which are right next to NWOA and EMOA areas, but not very near anywhere in the West Midlands.

[Snail]

The intention is to avoid clashes within a certain distance, which from memory used to be something like 75 miles.

That radius around WMOA will certainly include YHOA, and probably SEOA as well. Clearly you only need to liaise with some associations if you are discussing an event towards the edge of your area.

[awk]

The intention is to avoid clashes within a certain distance, which from memory used to be something like 75 miles.

That radius around WMOA will certainly include YHOA, and probably SEOA as well. .

i would be very disappointed if one couldn't hold 2 L2s less than 75 miles apart in the heart of England. Thank goodness that idea has been ignored on occasions - otherwise we'd have had even more travelling to do.

[geomorph]

East anglia Yorkshire Is this the same West midlands i live in?

It certainly us.

The BOF map is too simplistic.

Northamptonshire is split three ways between Leicester, South Midlands and OD, whilst South Yorkshire have in the past annexed parts of the Peak District which lie in Derbyshire.

And SCOA events are often only 1 hour +/- away, closer than northern EMOA.

Borders are rubbish for many many admin things and not just Orienteering.
We live in a world of appropriate travel times.
The consultation should be on a 'how local an audience do I expect to get for this event and from where is somebody likely to consider travelling to it'.
And the propensity to travel greater distances will of course be influenced by the denisty of events - probably people are prepared to travel further in Scotland, even in the unlikely circumstance that the area is not top notch......

[awk]

We live in a world of appropriate travel times...
And the propensity to travel greater distances will of course be influenced by the denisty of events - probably people are prepared to travel further in Scotland, even in the unlikely circumstance that the area is not top notch......

And also because one can on the whole travel further distances in a given time? Spatial perception also comes into play.

[PMG]

The current policy for Level 2 events is below. This was agreed at our last fixtures meeting (March) and went out with the minutes. This thread reminds me that I have not also sent it directly (via BOF) to all the clubs. Next job.

Peter G (Fixtures Chairman)
(Sat at home with a broken leg, victim of a Forest of Dean ditch!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed Method for Allocating Level 2, Regional Events
i.Bids for Level 2 Events would normally be made at Fixtures Group meetings held twice a year.

ii.There is a rolling “ring fenced” protected period of 12 months for Level 2 events, thus providing some protection to clubs.

iii.No further Level 2, Regional Events may be added to the Fixtures List in the 12 month “ring fenced” period unless agreed via email consultation, which will be managed by the National Fixture Secretary. [In accordance with the BOF Guide for managing meetings]

iv.At each Fixtures Group meeting bids for future planned events will be taken for at least the 12 months beyond the “ring fenced” period to roll the process forward. This then allows clubs to plan Level 3 Events

v.Fixtures Group would manage the Level 2 [Regional] bids and would work together to negotiate out clashes.

vi.The list will be formulated with a policy of fairness and equality of fixture opportunity to all clubs.

vii.The 100 mile rule has been abolished.

[EddieH]

Wimbledon exemplifies my issue with using unimportant events where the top runners don't turn it on for ranking.

Safina, World No 1 - totally outclassed by possibly the most one sided match in the whole tournament. Able to win numerous standard events all over the World (including I believe a Williams sister) but when it really counts so far off the pace as to have absoluely no hope whatsoever.

[EddieH]

Yet we seem to think that if you can dominate in 6 events in your backyard in 1 year you should have the opportunity to top the national rankings

[geomorph]

Wimbledon exemplifies my issue with using unimportant events where the top runners don't turn it on for ranking.

Safina, World No 1 - totally outclassed by possibly the most one sided match in the whole tournament. Able to win numerous standard events all over the World (including I believe a Williams sister) but when it really counts so far off the pace as to have absoluely no hope whatsoever.

WTA rankings award a set number of points according to your finish position and the level of tournament eg one of the Williams sisters will get 2000 points for winning Wimbledon, but only 1000 if they had won, for instance, the German or Swiss. It is also a total points basis.

As you rightly point out you can chose your events to avoid the quality opposition. In Safina's case she has competed more than either Williams and seems to have been selective. Given the Williams average success level they would overtake Safina with same number of competitions.

I think the way we award rankings points is far superior, but by no means perfect. At least we try to smooth out selectivity and base it on actual performance relative to the quality of the field present. Our big difficulty is the differences in terrain quality as others has rightly mentioned.