British Middle Distance Champs

[EddieH]

Well the green at Dallaschyle was more challenging than BMOC not that that takes anything away from what was obviously a great event with a very good selection of venue in the general area.

Saddest thing to me about the British is the separation of sprint and middle into different weekends - it's simply too much travel. Just look at the lack of depth in my class in both events - it hardly helps to raise the profile of anything other than bog standard orienteering.

If we refuse to combine the age group sprints with the elite, then for Heaven's sake separate the middle as well.

Next year the sprint is on its own in the deep south - well we'll see what sort of field that draws, but I am not optimistic.

[Mrs H]

I'm in total agreement about combining the sprints with the middle Eddie - with or without the elites. I'm struggling to think of a good reason why they should be held on different weekends - anyone know?

[geomorph]

I'm in total agreement about combining the sprints with the middle Eddie - with or without the elites. I'm struggling to think of a good reason why they should be held on different weekends - anyone know?

Would you also be in favour of a top flight sprint event prior to the other level 1 events that currently are not part of a weekend's-worth?

[distracted]

A suggestion:

- Elite Sprint and Middle in the Spring, in the elite competition season

- Age class Sprint and Middle over a weekend in the late summer/early Autumn

No arguments then about people not being able to run their age class and the elite race if they want to, and makes the spring calendar a bit less crowded.

Concerned about numbers at the former? Maybe hold the elite sprint and middle on appropriate terrain to make it the World Champs selection race? You'd have a quality race, definitely get the elites, and I'd imagine there are a few who'd like to see how they compare to the best.


On a general note, there are still far too few sprint/middle events that are not 'championships' of some sort (national or regional) - good to see one being put on with the Harvester, but would be nice to have more. There must be quite a few urban/park areas that are perfectly fine to host races over the summer months, when the forests aren't, which aren't utilised at all/at that time of year.

In essence, a bit more inventiveness from clubs, rather than same old standard events, wouldn't go amiss!

[EddieH]

The more combined weekends the better.

[mharky]

Elite Sprint and Middle in the Spring, in the elite competition season

/maybe hold the elite sprint and middle on appropriate terrain to make it the World Champs selection race? You'd have a quality race, definitely get the elites, and I'd imagine there are a few who'd like to see how they compare to the best.

The WOC selection races are held in summer, close to WOC. Not in Spring.

There are only 9 races worth running in Britain if you are elite. JK, BEOC & WOC selection races. Don't reduce that by combining them.

British Middle & Sprint Champs should be combined to one weekend, whether this shouls be BEOC and BOC is a different question. BEOC should be run on quality terrain. however if they are combined the punters shouldn't take the event over and punt all over it with their punterish puntings.

[geomorph]

British Middle & Sprint Champs should be combined to one weekend, whether this shouls be BEOC and BOC is a different question. BEOC should be run on quality terrain. however if they are combined the punters shouldn't take the event over and punt all over it with their punterish puntings.

just love that elitism

[Mrs H]

Would you also be in favour of a top flight sprint event prior to the other level 1 events that currently are not part of a weekend's-worth?

What a great idea! I haven't bothered travelling to a regular national event out of my area since the kids stopped being interested in selection. a top flight sprint event on the day before would probably tempt me as it would involve a weekend away anyway - especially if it was tied into some kind of league or the like.

I think if Mharky's attitde is representative it would be better to hold the elite and age class champs separately - every dog should have his day

[andy]

I think if Mharky's attitde is representative it would be better to hold the elite and age class champs separately - every dog should have his day

I think Mharky (and most elites/21s) doesn't really care if they're combined or not as it doesn't matter, nobody is going to go out of their way to do the M21 at an age class only champs.

What he's alluding to is that if they're going to be combined, do it well. BOC '08 at Cublin just goes to show how well it can be done. (and to a lesser extent the middle champs last weekend)

2 weekends, 4 british champs 'events'. Personally I think it makes sense to do BOC as 1 weekend of sprint/long and 1 of middle/relay. It's always hard running in a relay the day after a long race (and look at the issues surrounding scott vs oli at the JK for a better example)

[harry]

BOC + BOC Relay and BEOC Long are combined next year (in the West Mids) 1-2 May which clashes with 10mila. 10mila is usually around 18. april but it's 2 weeks later next year, in Finnspång.
http://www.10mila.se/2010/
http://www.walton-chasers.co.uk/boc2010/index.html

Shame because a BEOC Long on Cannock Chase will be a great test but missing 10mila is not really an option for some of us who get essential support from our clubs.

[mharky]

look at the issues surrounding scott vs oli at the JK for a better example

Yeah, just look at the BEOC Sprint/Middle weekend, when the playingfield is level Scott just can't keep up with the... oh...

Shame because a BEOC Long on Cannock Chase will be a great test

Not really sure what a BEOC Long on the Chase will be a test of, other than fitness. Just like the JK Long on the chase. Maybe time until boredom induced coma.

[awk]

If you want change of pace, significant route choices and detailed mapreading, you need to do sprints!

There was plenty of pace change on Sunday, and has been in every middle distance race I've done. It's written into the guidelines: "The course shall provide speed shifts". There has also always been plenty of route choice - the word significant is somewhat ambiguous, but I suspect it is focused more on the leg length than on the difference between route choices, as pretty much every middle distance race I've done has had route choice as an important element ("The element of route choice is essential....."). The only thing I see being cut out of middle distance is the easy route choice option - ("....but should not be at the expense of technically demanding orienteering"), which to my mind is no great loss, and certainly not over 50% of the technical challenge.

Unlike David, I don't see making things easy by taking out half the challenge as a laudable aim. Actually, more than half - I agree 100% with Oyvin Thon that there's no such thing as difficult orienteering, only incorrect speed.

FWIW I agree 100% too - and I suspect you'll find that most mistakes on Sunday were caused by just that, whilst I wasn't higher up the field because I'm physically useless at present, and couldn't run faster (which also helped as I found it hard to run too fast for my technique in these circumstances)!

Leith hill is here: some cracking long route choices
http://www.jk.routegadget.co.uk/cgi-bin ... =13&kieli=

I agree Leith Hill was an excellent example of planning - my course was a great middle distance course too, but where are these long route choices? The longest leg is only 750m.

Well the green at Dallaschyle was more challenging than BMOC.

Must have been amazing, as the BMOC was outstanding. Not sure how you can judge without running both.

Saddest thing to me about the British is the separation of sprint and middle into different weekends....If we refuse to combine the age group sprints with the elite, then for Heaven's sake separate the middle as well.

Tend to agree with the latter, but actually thoroughly enjoyed the weekend's format of everybody together for Saturday and courses tailored to ages for Sunday; but then I do particularly enjoy the way the British Elite Sprint is raced by all comers, with age pretty much irrelevant. I also dislike the format of the age class sprints, with two races added together, and look forward to when there are enough to warrant qualifications (or the format rejigged to enable that, which I think is eminently possible).

[Roger]

My new-ish heart-rate toy comes up with some illuminating statistics regarding the last three weekends' racing:

26 Apr Collingbourne (brown) 57:05, average heart rate 165 (max 179)
2 May Mallards Pike (middle) 35:28, average heart rate 165 (max 180)
3 May New Beechenhurst (M45L) 61:20, average heart rate 163 (max 181)
9 May Nottingham Univ (heat C) 19:43, average heart rate 172 (max 185)
9 May Nottingham Univ (B final) 19:33, average heart rate 175 (max 189)
10 May Cademan Wood (middle) 45:33, average heart rate 154 (max 171)

None of these runs was perfect but all were fairly good.

Clearly both the Elite Sprint Champs and the British Middle Champs provided something out of the ordinary: lung-bursting effort on Saturday and careful navigation on Sunday.
Well done and thank you to NOC and LEIOC for providing a weekend of contrasts.

[seabird]

On a general note, there are still far too few sprint/middle events that are not 'championships' of some sort (national or regional) - good to see one being put on with the Harvester, but would be nice to have more. !

Aire are planning a Middle Distance Event in November and again in June 2010

[harry]

Not really sure what a BEOC Long on the Chase will be a test of, other than fitness.

I suppose that's kind of what I had in mind...easier to test at the lab round the corner and then run Tio. Was also trying to say something positive. I guess being on fixtures committee is a bit of a thankless task. When was the last time you thanked a fixtures committee for a good looking fixtures list? But SOFT do publish Tio dates a few years in advance, maybe next year is decided but could be good to avoid clashing any Elite Champs with these:
2011 Apr 30 – May 1st
2012 Apr 23-24
2013 Apr 28-29