BEOC Long / FCC Final

[Adrian]

wonder if I ever knew it's compulsory to go the start kite?

7.2.13 Competitors shall follow in its entirety any compulsory route, including that leading
from the start or to the finish of the course.

Read the descriptions properly..... obviously you've not done that for the last 15 years or so!

? I don't get rule 7.2.13 insofar as it relates to the start.

[Scott]

I wonder what would have happened if somebody had hopped the tapes from the start platform and cut diagonally across the assembly field to the gate/start kite at the JK Middle this year...

Or a slightly more realistic possibility that has just been suggested to me: what if someone, instead of following the tapes from the start platform around the assembly field to the gate and start kite, had run straight off the platform and hopped the fence/wall* into the forest? It would certainly have been the most direct route from the start platform to the first Men's control - I reckon a good orienteer could have saved ~25secs...

*It's a crossable fence on the map but I seem to remember it being a wall on the ground, although I could well be wrong.

[mharky]

I've never really understood the compulsion to put the start kite almost-out-of-sight from the start line anyway

I've never understood why some people think it's OK not to visit the start point of their race...

The start kite is placed out-of-sight of the start-line so people do not get the advantage of seeing which direction previoues runners head from said start kite. If I was planning a high standard race, I would try my upmost to make sure that the start-kite couldn't be seen from the start line.

The route from the start-line to the start-kite is not mentioned on the control descriptions because it is not part of the measured course.

If that start-kite is out of sight it is always either taped or you are told by an offical that it is "50m round the corner on the track" etc.

In cycling races you never start at the start, you often have several kilmeters of neutralised zone before you reach the start line and you are allowed to begin racing. If you suddenly took a short cut and headed onto the main parcours you would be kicked out the race and given as massive fine. Like wise, If at the TioMila or Oringen you jumped the tapes and head out into the forest before the start-kite you would be DSQ.

Start 1: registration
Start 2: beginning of taped route away from assembly area
Start 3: big sign proclaiming “START”
Start 4: being allowed into the “start box”
Start 5: being allowed out of the “start box”
Start 6: punching the start
Start 7: getting your map
Start 8: the start kite

And as for that heap of crap...

Registration: It's where you enter a race. This may be at home, on the internet, a month before. It's not the start, It's registration

Sign saying start: Like the sign saying Edinburgh 10miles past the city limit. It's not actually Edinburgh, it's not actually a start, it's just a sign letting you know that you are there and havn't just stumbled across a big group of strange wierdos... actually, you have, and it's the start for an orienteering race.

Start box: you mean -3, -2, -1... minutes before you start. Work it out. You obviously havn't started yet.

Out of the start box but before oyu punch the start: Um... not many punching starts, but if they are, it's normally only a couple of meters...

Getting your map: aha! you've got your map, now go to the start point of the course, hurry hurry, the clock is already ticking!

The start kite: you are now at the location where you orienteering adventure begins. Have fun, and be sure to go onto nopesport in the evening and talk about jobby you don't understand.

[mharky]

It didn't happen though, did it, because everyone on the elite courses knew that you have to go to the start-kite to start your course. You clearly don't have a clue.

[Scott]

Don't look at me; Gross is the one who is claiming that unless it says "follow tapes to the start" in your descriptions, you don't have to go visit the kite. I'd assumed that he'd understand these things better than I do.

[Becks]

What's the guidelines for M55L winning time at a National? John Rye's time looks pretty awesome, but certainly not "long." 48 minutes! He is a legend though.

[Gross]

Dunno why I wrote that.... you need to go to the start kite (but try & find anything that actually says that? - I can't be bothered looking). By descriptions I meant the start triangle bit... rules say that competitors in the start area should not get an advantage by seeing earlier runners routes from the start kite.

I remember once dqing a couple of relay teams at Euromeeting for jumping tapes & missing start kite out.

[graeme]

Thanks to BOK for an excellent and challenging elite course. Splits reveal five different leaders: Archer Speake Crane Gristwood and finally Oli.

Re. starts: O-Ringen 1987 day 1 My first run in Scandi. Start kite was some 4 contours up a big bank from the start on the road. I was told I had to visit the start, so ran up the bank, touched the kite, back to the prestart and all the way round on the road .

M55 Guidelines?

Length is a fraction of the M21E course. Which is pretty stupid when M21E spent half the time on a different area which was much slower!

[EddieH]

We have had this discussion before and I think the conclusion was that it is an IOF rule to visit the starft kite, whereas the BOF rule is far from precise on this. It certainly does not make it compulsory when there are no tapes, and what a nonsense it would have been at the stormy BOC in the NE where the start kite was the top of a massive crag behind the pre-start!

I must defend myself against Mharky's comment of my actions at Bogendreip. The start was clearly marked on the map as the road end. I had planned accordingly but found the tapes leading off into the heather. In reality all I did was cross the tapes. I was as close on the other side as it was reasonable to be on the initial side. Maybe it wasn't quite right, but in the heat of the moment I saw nothing wrong with what I did - in any case Mharky's (if it were he) yell was running through my mind for the first leg to such an extent that I missed the control.

As so often these cases are sometimes not black and white. If Tessa's map had the red line going straight from one control to the next, then I fail to see how she can be disqualified as the planning team didn't fulfil their side of the bargain in making it unambiguous. Admittedly it is not intuitive in Condes how to mark such a route on the map, but I found an e-mail to Fin Arildsen (Mr. Condes) produced a very quick response exactly how to do it.

[Julz B]

I presume the selectors are meeting tonight for the team to be announced tomorrow morning.

There's a bit of waiting to be done...I've been told they are meeting on the 17th and that the selections will be announced the following week.

[Lard]

I hope no-one is saying I didn't go to the start kite!
I know the rules, unlike the guy starting 3 minutes before me yesterday!
I do find that general rule annoying when the start kite is a different direction to your route choice decision, but hey, why risk disqualification at the very beggining of a race.
As it happens, if you didn't go within 4 metres of yesterday's start kite you didn't get the best of lines into no1. No argument.

Does anyone else not want to see a ditch ever again after yesterday!

[Scott]

It didn't happen though, did it, because everyone on the elite courses knew that you have to go to the start-kite to start your course.

Except they obviously don't - at least according to the start officials, there were people on M21E yesterday who didn't bother. And I seem to recall a day of the last Scottish 6 Day (Alvie?) where the start kite was on top of a small (~15m?) hill, and a lot of elite runners were freely admitting afterwards that they had run around the side instead. The problem is that if the route to the start kite is not a taped funnel or is out of sight of officials then it's very hard to police. JK Day 2 got it right.

Lard - the start guys thought it was you, but evidently they were mixing you up with your predecessor...

[Scott]

And back on topic... RouteGadget for the non-elite courses is up.

[greywolf]

What's the guidelines for M55L winning time at a National? John Rye's time looks pretty awesome, but certainly not "long." 48 minutes! He is a legend though.

The guidelines say a top elite should be able to run the M55L course in 42 mins (75 mins * 0.56). Any M55 within 15% of top M21E would be very very special... But then the top elite winning time for M45L (75 mins * 0.69) should be 51.45...

At last years WMOC final the taped route to the start kite was so far that we were catching people from the previous minutes's start block...

[EddieH]

"At last years WMOC final the taped route to the start kite was so far that we were catching people from the previous minutes's start block..."

However as the pre start was not on the map and no-one could have any idea where it was in relation to the start, no-one could possibly have gained any advantage from not going all the way to the start. Mind you Elizabeth Brown's 1.3 k must have really been 50% longer.

Anyone remember a Scottish relays at Anagach where the taped (unmeasured) route to the start was well over 1k.