Graythwaite Start List

[Gnitworp]

Solution, for some, to the Veteran eyesight problem:

'Organise' -2 to -3 dioptres of myopia and you'll read any map perfectly without corrective lenses at 60+ . Get laser surgery and you won't! BE WARNED!

Use rimless spectacles with the bottom 25% of the lenses cut away (see earlier thread).
(some modern fashion frames work without cutting away to specification).

[Darwin]

Just to reinforce what AWK has said, if I can't run and navigate at the same time simply because of map-scale fascism - then I'll be off to take up something else - that is the point of the sport after all. If the only competitive vets are those with exceptional eyesight for their age, then as a sport, orienteering becomes pointless after the age of 45.

In the greener (ie. darker!) bits of Graythwaite, for me as an M50, being competitive means 1:7500 - despite the fact that for the long legs it would have been much easier to make route choices on a 1:15000. and constantly refoldng the map is a time burner.

Anyway more importantly - thanks to the organisers for an excellent event. The course planning reminded me what orienteering should be all about - long interesting legs with continual route choice dilemmas and constant switching between techniques.

[Gnitworp]

Whatever BO in their 'wisdom' cared to designate it as, Graythwaite was a top quality competition with top quality competitors choosing to take part; end of story.

[mharky]

Graeme,

I don't remember there being a massive fuss at the JK04 or BOC99, so obviously the 1:15000 was acceptable.

You also point out the quality of printing as a determinant of readability, not the actualy quality of mapping. That is to say, if the map is printed properly, then 1:15000 should be fine.

I'm all up for having 1:10000's and 1:7500's for special cases like Lossie. I just think it's wierd that suddenly after years of using Graythwaite the map scale has suddenly become an issue.

The decision should ulitmately come down to the planner (& mapper). They spend the most time on the area so they know what is appropriate. We shouldn't have to stick to some rule in some book because some man in a tie tells us too.

However, choice of scales? Er, no.

[awk]

I just think it's wierd that suddenly after years of using Graythwaite the map scale has suddenly become an issue.....The decision should ulitmately come down to the planner (& mapper).

I think there was (quite a lot off discussion), not least because the mapper wanted it at 1:10k. I certainly remember a fair bit of discussion. At this event, I think both planner and mapper wanted 1:10k. Wasn't that half the argument, the fact that they did, but map committee didn't?

[madmike]

I don't remember there being a massive fuss at the JK04 or BOC99, so obviously the 1:15000 was acceptable.

you clearly weren't in the Assembly area at BOC99 when I eventually finished then - I did have a lady approach me to point out that there were children present and would I please moderate my language

Edit: my recollection matches Awk's not yours Mharky

[mharky]

Obviously people did have issues then, I didn't hear about them, but I would have only been speaking to young people with decent eyesight. The forum history doesn't go back to 2004, so can't find out what the aftermath of that JK was.

[madmike]

Obviously people did have issues then, I didn't hear about them, but I would have only been speaking to young people with decent eyesight. The forum history doesn't go back to 2004, so can't find out what the aftermath of that JK was.

less of an issue for me in 2004 asI knew what to expect after 99 (and had a magnfying glass attached to my compass by then )

[distracted]

Obviously people did have issues then, I didn't hear about them, but I would have only been speaking to young people with decent eyesight. The forum history doesn't go back to 2004, so can't find out what the aftermath of that JK was.

Try viewtopic.php?f=1&t=766 - no mention of map scales as far as I can see...

[Darwin]

Maybe your eyesight is going

I quote:

"Seemed to be a lot of plodding along the straight line through thick stuff and brashings looking for bits where there was enough light to read the map".

[Neil M40]

I have in front of me M21E maps of Graythwaite from the World Cup in '98, BOC 99 and JK04 days 1 and 2. The only one that is at 1:15000 is JK day 2. The rest are all 1:10000. All of them, including the 1:15000 map, are easier to read than the 1:10000 map I used on Sunday. The colours on the laser printed map seem to be the main problem - the dark green in particular is horrible and the contours don't show up against it at all. The old maps are just so much easier to look at.

[EddieH]

Graeme hit the nail absolutely on the head.

He included overmapping as being a problem which has scarcely had any other mention here.

I don't really care what scale is used - different scales for different types of area seems appropriate. However what IS a problem, and will lead to the exodus from the sport that AWK and others rear is mapping too much detail for the scale being used. 1:10000 is appropriate for older competitors when the area is mapped at 1:15000 but when the map is surveyed for a 1:10000 print, 1:7500 becomes appropriate for veterans.

Ideally the younger adults use whatever scale the mapper was surveying for, but the vast bulk of veterans should always have the enlarged version.

Sadly the IOF's flagship veteran event WMOC has sometimes lost sight of this because all maps are at 1:10000 but the mapper fails to map for a standard 1:15000 map.

[andy]

what a belter of a course M21L was, gutted I couldn't make it... loving the epic route choices on 14

[awk]

Totally agree Eddie: it's the enlargement that is needed, not more detail!

BTW when we went to the O-ringen 2 years ago, I noticed that the older vets (M/W70/80ish) were getting a further enlargement, to 1:5000. Don't know whether it happened last year or not - didn't see.

[Mrs H]

I'm really enjoying this debate - but I am a bit confused

Is it the map scale or the map scale choice that people are arguing about - they are two very different subjects.