JK 2009 Feedback?

[EddieH]

I was amazed how many helpers the North East managed to find. A massive amount of work on top of huge efforts from major officials in the lead up to the event. I am so glad that for once you got fabulous weather.

I do however have a problem with days 2 and 3. The maps have been updated on several occasions over the years, but the original base was not from a PG plot and made at a time when the standards were very different to now. I think Kyloe is a really good area, but I don't think the map does it justice. The contours simply do not reflect the ground to the standard expected of such a major event. As long as more updates are made it will never change. If BOF want the JK to be our major showpiece then they have to ensure that maps are produced to current standards.

My first control on day 2 was on top of a spur at the foot of a thick green slope. Like everyone bar one that I spoke to I ran along till I saw the spur, only to find that the obviously visible one wasn't mapped. Later on we had a hillside where the upper and lower parts did not match up (I would assess by over 100m) yet we have a compass leg down it. I say this with confidence as EVERYONE had trouble here, and sadly the amount of time lost has nothing to do with ability.

Had there been any probability of removing this leg from the course without voiding the whole thing I would have protested in the hope that that would have happened.

Similarly on day 3 we had a control in a hole, mapped 10m+ from a wall, yet virtually adjacent to it and quite invisible from the mapped point. I do not consider time lost here reflecting any error.

I really don't want to carp as I enjoyed the whole weekend - but for feedback purposes, big money raising prestige events need to have appropriate maps.

I really can't get my head round finances - if TAY can afford to pay for a brand new professional map of a really green area which needed intensive mapping for a Scottish O League event the week before, how can BOF/NEOA not afford to pay for a PG plot and resurvey for an event with this entry fee and 10 times the number of payers?

[graeme]

have been used at many subsequent Harvesters.

For example in 2000, when the leading teams came in together after leg 5, and one had to hang around for several minutes while the organisers found a replacement for the map which another team had taken in error.

Not that I'm still bitter It just shows that there's no foolproof system.

Graeme,
Can I now stand down from my duty as official Nopesport watcher?

Not sure need my permission, but I think everyone has appreciated your input to various threads. Thanks again for all your efforts in steering the event through difficult times and making the weekend a success.

[NeilC]

have been used at many subsequent Harvesters.

For example in 2000, when the leading teams came in together after leg 5, and one had to hang around for several minutes while the organisers found a replacement for the map which another team had taken in error.

Not that I'm still bitter It just shows that there's no foolproof system.

I was in charge of the relay changeover at the World Cup in 2005 which used trees. In the heat of competition a lot of competitors did attempt to take the wrong map. Despite the planner (and his wife) having a very efficient system for replacing maps taken in error we decided to bend the official guidelines and helped the runners locate their correct maps. The handing out of maps in a tent should be (and has been) fine but it seems that despite the best efforts of the Major Events Conference the wheel does seem to get re-invented rather too often.

[Scott]

I was in charge of the relay changeover at the World Cup in 2005 which used trees. In the heat of competition a lot of competitors did attempt to take the wrong map.

This is why I think boards are a better solution than trees - having the map hanging flat rather than rolled up allows you to write the bib number and club on the back in BIG LETTERS, which must reduce the chances of competitors taking the wrong one. I personally prefer the outgoing-runner-picks-up version of the system, as (so long as the boards are visible from the changeover pen) the outgoing runner then has plenty of time to work out where their map is while they're waiting - as well as making it easy for spectators to see which teams have been through the changeover. And if you automatically disqualify any team that takes the wrong map, there's a pretty strong incentive for them to get it right.

[Sue C]

Partly due to the excellent weather and partly due to the essential hours of socialising required by teenage orienteers, we spent almost the entire weekend in the various assembly areas. The combination of the staggered finishes for the elite courses and the excellent commentary meant that there was always something to look at or listen to. The speed of the top elites through rough terrain is quite mind boggling.

Days 2 and 3 were tough, but like the SOL last week they made a very interesting change to the southern forests that I usually run in.

Many thanks to all who worked so hard to put this on.

[Becks]

Harley, DanH has already done so perfectly. I was very grateful to have the choice of a shorter, less pressure filled course to run, so that I actually enjoyed my weekend as opposed to pushing myself too hard round an elite classic. But I don't believe I should be given a prize for doing so - either you run the elite, and you're the best in your age class, and you deserve a prize, or you choose to run a shorter course, you have competition with other people who have chosen to do so, you enjoy yourself, but you don't deserve to be rewarded with anything other than the experience. Which I very much enjoyed.

[Becks]

And on the relay board thing, if you watch a Halden SK changeover at 10mila or Jukola, the incoming runner picks up the map, shows the outgoing runner the number (which is written very big on the back, usually) and only when they are both satisfied it's the correct one, does the outgoing runner go out. I thought that was great the first time I saw it.

[Scott]

...and yet another minor gripe (sorry ) that has just occurred to me on looking at my photos from the weekend, and something that applies to all major events: if you're going to have a podium/trophy presentation, please position it so that the sun isn't directly behind the prizewinners. It was a nightmare trying to get decent photos on Sunday (which is presumably why all the "official" podium photos were taken on the grass behind the podium and facing in the opposite direction).

[gordz]

It was my first JK this year, and I thought it was fantastic. Well, Days 1, 2 and 3 were anyway. Wasn't so impressed with the relay on day 4.
The distance of car park / not enough buses, combined with a finish for relay which wasn't in the best place for spectators, and also for us competitors the handover for the relay was awful! The people that handed out maps took for ever to do so and then the actual handover itself was just a mess!
The road leading to Day 3 was fantastic either, ruined the underside of my car! It just seemed like they'd decided on the event being there, but not checked that cars could actually get to it or down that awful road!
On a positive note, the weather was stunning though, can't believe I actually got sun burnt in Newcastle!!! And the actual routes/races themselves were very well mapped I thought and very enjoyable!

[Freefall]

Lots of us had been up and down the road to the Day 3 parking area on numerous occasions and the landowner removed one big rock which gave us cause for concern. Can you think how else we could have got to that parking area? Buses? Remember we looked at every other parking possibility around. We were refused access by one farmer, another landowner was selling land and did not want to tie new owners to a commitment like the JK, Cemex refused parking in their quarry. fields to the NE are always too wet.

On the mapping issue, once again remember we only started to look at Kyloe as a possibility late on. Maybe we can look to do a PG plot but how well do you think it would pick up contours in such a forested area? Advice on costs, source material would be welcome. As it happens my Day 2 run was my best ever in a JK so I was very happy with the map!

[Freefall]

...and yet another minor gripe (sorry ) that has just occurred to me on looking at my photos from the weekend, and something that applies to all major events: if you're going to have a podium/trophy presentation, please position it so that the sun isn't directly behind the prizewinners. It was a nightmare trying to get decent photos on Sunday (which is presumably why all the "official" podium photos were taken on the grass behind the podium and facing in the opposite direction).

The podium position was selected so that spectators could sit up on the bank and look down at the winners. It also had to be near Commentary. We could have turned it around 90 degrees I suppose but it wouldn't have looked so good. We didn't expect sunshine in any case...

[gordz]

The podium position was selected so that spectators could sit up on the bank and look down at the winners. It also had to be near Commentary. We could have turned it around 90 degrees I suppose but it wouldn't have looked so good. We didn't expect sunshine in any case...

Ha, I don't think anyone expected sunshine, hence why everyone got burnt! I was on the podium and had my photo taken by my girlfriend and I think it made the photos look even better with the sun gleaming in the background. Makes me remember what a beautiful day it had been!

[awk]

If you are still orienteering when you are 34 you may actually feel grateful that you still have a course available where you can have a competitive run and not feel shamed by having to compare yourself against a new generation of much younger and much fitter elites.

Well, I'm an M50 Harley, and feel exactly the same way as Becks when it comes to prizes etc. I regularly run Short, but recognise that it is effectively, whatever anybody says, the B class. At an event where the Long class is the premier one (which it is most of the time), I would much rather see prizes/awards going further down the L class than coming to the S class. It doesn't mean that we are any less competitive amongst ourselves, but lets be realistic!

Of course, there should be more events where the S class (Middle distance in effect) is stated as the premier class in an age category, and L classes are only put on for those who insist on running a longer distance. (Maybe this is what should happen on Day 2 of the JK for the age classes ???!).

As DanH says, junior classes are somewhat different.

[awk]

Let's focus on all the good things but we can all learn by our mistakes - after all some of you might be organising JKs in the future and your organisation will be perfect.

Agree, but if you ask for feedback, it's inevitable that people are going to focus just as much on things that could do with improvement from their perspective as on the praise. Unless, of course, you only want the praise? Seems to me, the bulk of the feedback so far has been very positive. Especially given that the NEOA is one of the smallest regions in BOF, and is not overendowed with super-wonderful terrain, all the more deserved. We had a great weekend, both orienteers and non-orienteers alike.

Sometimes, of course, there will be a good reason why things were like they were; it certainly helped the sense of goodwill on Monday knowing that the problems with buses were largely out of the organisers hands and not a result of an organisational mistake!

[andy]

if you're going to have a podium/trophy presentation

I heard this mentioned by someone in esoc too...

And freefall, as has been said it was a fantastic event but the focus of 'feedback' posts like this tends to be negative. The JK was very very far from being a failure, it was a very successful event.