Age Group Sprints

[graeme]

So after all these years I finally won a target race. The two round format was excellent, and made for a tough day's racing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But this isn't meant to be a "hurrah for me!": I'm reflecting on some curiosities.

I followed my habit of running the long course, which put me on M40, though I must admit I wasn't sorry to avoid the stiffer-looking competition on M45. And Spookster can hardly whinge about people shopping around for easy classes

An early mistake meant I was caught by Scott Fraser. The race meant a lot to me, much less to the elites. As I hung on for a few controls I was troubled at the thought that a faster friend and clubmate had the opportunity to shepherd me to the finish, without much personal cost. In fact he just ran away, and the 30 sec or so I gained from grimly hanging on probably vanished as I faded later in the course.

Tim Griffin won round 1. But he wasn't eligible to be champion because he has the wrong type of BOF membership. If he'd stayed ahead that would certainly have taken the shine off my win.

Round 2. At #2 I catch my 1 minute man (Mike McIver, for some reason M20s aren't elites for sprint racing...) and I spend 10 controls on his tail. Once again, I'm aided by someone who isn't in my race. With a clean run I even beat the M35s - leaving me to think
how annoying would it have been to have picked the wrong class for a "soft" title.

I'd like to think none of the niggles above really matter - what do others think?

[andy]

Congratulations!

As an M21 racing on Saturday it all seemed a bit unusual and kind of a non-event. I Have no idea why it wasn't the 'Elite' championships too, especially as the 18s and 20s had their champs on Saturday... Would've been good to have had all the top guys (rather than the 3 or 4 who did) turning up.

As for different classes on the same course, I was debating up until the 2nd race whether the 'reverse order start' was going to be done on course or class. It was done on course, but if you're going to have it by class then you'd probably need a gap between each 'course block'. This issue, and the others graeme talks about, introduce logistical issues / headaches for the organisers though.

Another issue I was thinking about was the difference between the sprint champs last year and this year. Last year was heats and finals, this year was 2 races with combined times. It'd be good to see some consistency!

[Mrs H]

No Graeme - i think you were definitely pot hunting by running up - I'm sure the M45s were running faster even tho' their courses were shorter - in sprint the "long is hard core" rule is reversed

[SJC]

Another issue I was thinking about was the difference between the sprint champs last year and this year. Last year was heats and finals, this year was 2 races with combined times.

The Britiah Sprint Championships at Nottingham will be Heats and Finals and the true British Championships. Just one competition for the men and one for the women.

Organising separate heats and finals for all the different age classes at Saturday's event would have been a logistical nighmare, and a rather pointless exercise given the size of the classes.

[zulu_warrior]

Disregarding the organisation and pot hunting, I must say that I think the planning and the area (especially on the first lap) kept the brain working. The change in terrain and the intricacies of the route choice were excellent. Just what sprint racing is about - keeping you whits about!

I have to say was disapponited to find the second race was ordered by course. Having caught the minute man on the bridge (in my Class) I eased off slightly - with 'no -one' (I knew) in sight behind! Also have to admit I was running alongside an M18 (Alan C) for the first half and although not the same controls enough of a match to be able to 'race' with him.

[greywolf]

The British Sprint Championships at Nottingham will be Heats and Finals and the true British Championships. Just one competition for the men and one for the women.

Really? Thats not what it says on the BOF fixtures list - go to details and hit the "View Courses" button and this helpful chart appears...

British Elite Sprint Courses.jpg (75.32 KiB) Viewed 5169 times

click on "here" and you get this handy pop-up

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/course_popup.html

I was going to enter, but I'm not sure i fancy sprinting for 7.6 - 10 km, especially if it's heats and finals. Must be a big campus...

[edit: By a strange coincidence, according to BOF fixtures, the British Middle Champs appear to have exactly the same courses as the Sprints ]

[EddieH]

I don't know what you are seeing Greywolf - your courses scarcely look like sprint - Black 10.1k +

The link I get to the NOC site clearly states

"Men i.e. M16 to M80 all in the same race"


Andy wrote

"Another issue I was thinking about was the difference between the sprint champs last year and this year. Last year was heats and finals, this year was 2 races with combined times. It'd be good to see some consistency!"

Hardly so - last year was the British Elite Sprints as indeed will be again at Nottingham.
Stirling was the inaugural proper British Champs for the vast majority (except the 21's)

[EddieH]

I note that the army have already taken on next year's age sprint champs and it looks as though we will see a repeat of this year when presumably the middle will be on yet another separate weekend.

Consequence: people won't bother to travel (northerners next time) and there will be arguments that the event is unwanted, pointless, and that the champions aren't true champions .... What rubbish.

IF! we realy need to separate the elite from the rest, I cannot understand the argument that says we don't need to do that for the Middle champs - Lets have the age group middle on the same weekend as the sprint PLEASEEEEEE.

Congratulations to the southern based english that made it to Stirling

[awk]

Just a thought. To what extent is the concept of 'sprint' affected, if at all, if one combines the two times together, as opposed to simply taking the time in the final?

[RS]

If the army are doing next year's then I fear the same debacle as last year's elite at Warwick when emit was used and lots of disqualifications

[NeilC]

As the current co-ordinator/mapper of the 2011 elite sprint champs I personally would like to see the elite and age class competitions run on the same day with the all-age-class middle champs the following day. I also believe though that the heat/final system (that mimics WOC) is right for the elites and the combined time right for the rest of us. Apart from the logistical problems of running the two formats on the same day the other stumbling block is that it will force the top 18/20/35 etc runners to have to choose between running their age class championships and going for the main elite championship. Note that it is not possible to fairly award age class championships based on performance in the elite championships. Two possible solutions that come to mind:
1) Make non-21 runners decide which championship to enter. If the best 18-35 runners decide to run elite then that will devalue some age class competitions, but people not turning up or running up happens already.
2) Abolish the 18 and 20 (and 35?) age class sprint championships on the basis that they ought to be competitive with the 21 class.

[greywolf]

I don't know what you are seeing Greywolf - your courses scarcely look like sprint - Black 10.1k +
The link I get to the NOC site clearly states
"Men i.e. M16 to M80 all in the same race"

Yes indeed Eddie, but that's not what it says on the BOF fixtures list, and there's no link from the details to the NOC website...

[LostAgain]

As the current co-ordinator/mapper of the 2011 elite sprint champs I personally would like to see the elite and age class competitions run on the same day with the all-age-class middle champs the following day. I also believe though that the heat/final system (that mimics WOC) is right for the elites and the combined time right for the rest of us. Apart from the logistical problems of running the two formats on the same day the other stumbling block is that it will force the top 18/20/35 etc runners to have to choose between running their age class championships and going for the main elite championship. Note that it is not possible to fairly award age class championships based on performance in the elite championships. Two possible solutions that come to mind:
1) Make non-21 runners decide which championship to enter. If the best 18-35 runners decide to run elite then that will devalue some age class competitions, but people not turning up or running up happens already.
2) Abolish the 18 and 20 (and 35?) age class sprint championships on the basis that they ought to be competitive with the 21 class.

Why not 18, 20, 21 & 35 all run same course. Winner takes Elite Champion title and top 18, 20 and 35 takes Age Champion? Seems very straightforward to me

If by ether 18/20 or 35 also wins overall , great they take both titles.

[Blanka]

Yes indeed Eddie, but that's not what it says on the BOF fixtures list, and there's no link from the details to the NOC website...

I believe this is due to a recently added feature of the fixtures system, which allows the club fixtures' secretary to define the courses that will be available at an event.

Basically for the events already set up, BOF will have automatically picked some (the same?) courses and it is up to the club fixtures secretary (NOC in this case) to make sure the course details are correct. Which seems fair enough to me, because you can't expect BOF to know the course combinations for every event in the next six months. But this is probably a teething issue - now that the new feature exists, people will be able to define the courses at the time of registering the event.

And I think if we're going to be entering the Elite Sprint Champs, we are intelligent enough or have enough past experience to know that the event will involve two courses, heats followed by the final, with a 12-15 minute winning time each...

[Becks]

Why not 18, 20, 21 & 35 all run same course. Winner takes Elite Champion title and top 18, 20 and 35 takes Age Champion? Seems very straightforward to me

If by ether 18/20 or 35 also wins overall , great they take both titles.

I think it's because they might be running slightly different courses in the final maybe? If only top 15 go through to the A final, and only one of them qualifies, then the rest will run a different course. There are arguements as to this not mattering or being the end of the world, depending on where you come from?

Or I could just be wrong, I am shattered.