W16 talent

[EddieH]

It's good to see the competitiveness of W16. Look at the British sprint champs first heat - 11 of the 12 runners all in the same minute, and Chloe the winner one of only two runners not to win a leg

[Rosine]

And look at the way the juniors dominated the courses on the SOL yesterday: the first 12 places on the green and the top 9 on the blue, and a couple of them sprinting around the light green.

[Big Jon]

Careful eddie - a heading like that could get you investigated for dodgy behaviour!!

[EddieH]

Oh I hadn't thought of that - I'm far too innocent

[Big Jon]

Its probably alright Eddie - as long as you are not coaching a W16, though if you had mentioned it for W14s.......... whew!

[Wayward-O]

JK (Day 1) W18 sprint - 2nd and 3rd places taken by W16's.

[mharky]

Yvette Hague won the JK W21E when she was 15

[Big Jon]

just as well the existing FCC rules didn't apply back then - she wouldn't have been allowed to run even W18 (current FCC rules).

[mharky]

I remember those rules. As an M16 I wasn't allowed to run in a closed FCC race. A few weekends later I was allowed to run in an open UK Cup race. As I recall I beat all but 2 of the M18's I wasn't allowed to race against earlier in the year...

[DaveK]

I remember those rules. As an M16 I wasn't allowed to run in a closed FCC race. A few weekends later I was allowed to run in an open UK Cup race. As I recall I beat all but 2 of the M18's I wasn't allowed to race against earlier in the year...

Yes, that's a real shame!

[awk]

just as well the existing FCC rules didn't apply back then - she wouldn't have been allowed to run even W18 (current FCC rules).

I remember those rules. As an M16 I wasn't allowed to run in a closed FCC race. A few weekends later I was allowed to run in an open UK Cup race. As I recall I beat all but 2 of the M18's I wasn't allowed to race against earlier in the year...

Did it do (or would it have done) any harm by not running? One of the points behind the rule is to prevent growing juniors from doing too much too soon, quite a common problem in sport (including orienteering). I seem to remember reading somewhere fairly recently, that Yvette felt she had done too much too soon (but may have misremembered).

In particular, male courses make some pretty big leaps in distance.

[mharky]

One of the points behind the rule is to prevent growing juniors from doing too much too soon...

But the rule only applies to about 2 or races in any given year, so isn't going to be very effective. You can run youself into the groun in every other race except closed FCC ones, so not very useful at stopping exhausting juniors. The one time I suffered was from over-training, not over racing, and no rules can stop that. I don't see how FCC middle races can really exhaust anyone.

[awk]

It might then be a bit of an historical leftover (although the decision was confirmed only last year) then. I don't follow it so closely now mharky, so things may have changed, but when I set it up, that was the reason: it was always run at open events (except the final which was completely closed and specially put on), and we didn't want to encourage M/W16s to run up - should be learning to race fast before building endurance - given that it was aimed at M/W20s, with 18s running to build up for 20s. There weren't any middle distance races in those days, other than Day 1 of the final (called Short then), which in itself was innovative. Things move on, but if the longer races are still aimed at 20s, then 16s running up is still surely a bit premature.

[mharky]

That may be, but the long races are always held on the Sunday at badge/national events (or whatever these are called now), which means if a 16 wants to run up, they can. It's the middle distances which tend to be held at closed events on Saturdays where 16's are forbidden (with the exception of the final). With the advent of middle races this "rule" has become obsolete for the reasons I mention.

Thierry Gueorgiou went to JWOC as an M16, in Britain he wouldn't have had the chance.

I don't see why anyone has the right to dictate what a 16 can or cannot run. That is between them, their coach and their parents.

[awk]

Thierry Gueorgiou went to JWOC as an M16, in Britain he wouldn't have had the chance.

Was it important that he did go? Did it make any positive difference to his longer term development? Unless one can say it did, then it says nothing in favour of somebody going early. From recollection, he wouldn't have been selected in most of Scandinavia either. Unless things have changed in the last few years (which they might have done), no running up is allowed.

Having said that, the advent of sprint and middle distance races does mean that a younger athlete going shouldn't be such an issue as it might have been in the past.

I don't see why anyone has the right to dictate what a 16 can or cannot run. That is between them, their coach and their parents.

I do (see that is). There is a long history in sport of young people, influenced or not by coaches and/or parents, doing too much too soon. As a result, a lot of sports put limits on what younger athletes can do. The important question is, does it enhance their development by running longer early? (I've never seen any evidence in favour - is there any?) Can it have a negative effect? (Yes).

Yes, 16s can run the open races, but by not being eligible for the FCC, that is not encouraged. Of course, BOF could go further, and ban running up in open races all together, but I somehow suspect that might create an even bigger protest.