BUCS 2009

[Rookie]

In response to Tessa's post, I agree competition is what gets people involved at uni. There was a one-off mid-week night score match in a park between Birmingham and Warwick that we took a full minibus to and BUOC were about the same. Pretty much the best turn out both clubs had seen. Few of the people racing were serious orienteers but the chance to take on another uni (ok, me and Tess bigged it up a bit at both ends) got them out. BUCS this year was also our biggest turn out and we are stuggling this year. The fact you can go to BUCS at any standard and compete (A, B or C) is just great.

Difficult part is recruiting from other sports. We have great links with the XC club, and good rivalry/banter at socials and our own XC relay event, but getting them to come orienteering is difficult. They can run but don't like the thought of coming last since they aren't experienced, even when I tell them they can do an easy course to start with and they won't come last.

Our most successful recruitment has been people who used to run and feel like getting back into it but want to try something else. There are also the people with little sporty background who enjoy the outdoors. Problem there is it's hard to get them to train up and actually "race" but at least they are involved.

UWOC has been relying on an influx of club orienteers since its re-formation pretty much. A lot of us leave this year but there are still a few so hopefully it'll stay alive, but like BUOC most are first year's so they will be picking up a lot of responsibility straight away. It is a risky business having such a reliance but I think it is true for all small clubs and without keen orienteers it will be hard for the club to continue. It is a lot of work to keep these clubs going.

[SeanC]

Well if we move to Scotland my son can save on tuition fees and set up a pension instead.

Money must be a factor. In the 80's less people went to uni but the money was easier, no tuition fees, book grants, housing benefit, unemployment benefit in the summer hols blah blah....

So I'm guessing students of today are more likely to have a part time job to keep them out of debt and pay for their iphones and lager, so have less time to run orienteering clubs.

Here's an idea. If someone is brave enough to set up a new student orienteering club, why don't we pay them so that they have the time to run the club instead of flippling burgers? Us baby boomers can't really moan too much, we got our education on the cheap compared to today's lot.

[Blanka]

Does it actually matter if people who are in their 20s-30s (including students) leave the sport? Leave the elites to keep on training and run at high level whilst the others are mainly busy with the academic side of University, trying out new things (eg. other sports/activities, Uni is the best time to do that), and starting careers. They may even enjoy the odd orienteering event but probably not every weekend as they used to as juniors.

Once those people who've left orienteering in their 20s/30s have their own families, they will probably return to orienteering as it is quite a good family sport. Then they will also be likelier to be more settled and willing to take on committee roles in their local club, perhaps helping to run junior session, which will also benefit their own children.

So maybe we just need to accept the fact that the demographic of orienteering is quite a lot of juniors, a dip in the 20s/30s age-class and then a rise again for people in late 30s and 40s upwards? And just stop worrying about the lack of Uni clubs - if people want to orienteer at Uni they will, if they don't, then it doesn't really matter.

Just some thoughts really...

[Scott]

There are also the people with little sporty background who enjoy the outdoors. Problem there is it's hard to get them to train up and actually "race" but at least they are involved.

Quite: if they enjoy bimbling around at their own speed and keep coming back for more, but they don't want/can't be bothered to "train up" to racing around 21L, that shouldn't be an issue. "Better a club full of punters than no club at all" is a message that ought to be spread more widely - in fact, there more punters you have to help run the club, the more time anyone who wants to be really good can spend concentrating on being really good (speaking as a punter).

whilst at university you might as well get some practise in and spend your time worrying about middle aged concerns, such as recruitment, retention

But unless you're at Edinburgh or Sheffield (maybe just Edinburgh now?) you have to worry about recruitment and retention, because otherwise you will pretty quickly cease to have a club, and that would be significantly less fun.

[Scott]

Does it actually matter if people who are in their 20s-30s (including students) leave the sport?

The big junior fall off seems to occur around 17/18, when kids are no longer being taken to events every weekend by their parents, and (entirely anecdotally) when many of those who are used to being picked for BOF tours suddenly realise that they're probably not going to "make it" and lose interest in the sport. The issue is not people in their 20s/30s giving up orienteering, it's them not being in the sport in the first place.

Once those people who've left orienteering in their 20s/30s have their own families, they will probably return to orienteering as it is quite a good family sport.

Really? Everybody seems very fond of claiming this, but I'm still far from convinced that this is happening now in any significant numbers, much less that it will be happening in fifteen years' time (although it may have done fifteen years ago), which is a little worrying given that it seems to be the "fact" upon which the entire future of the sport currently depends .

So maybe we just need to accept the fact that the demographic of orienteering is quite a lot of juniors, a dip in the 20s/30s age-class and then a rise again for people in late 30s and 40s upwards?

If the sport was regularly attracting new 40-year-olds, that would be fine, but the fundamental problem is that this is not the case - the age demographic of the sport itself is getting older each year (by a bit less than a year - see that rather scary graph in the annual report), and this simply isn't sustainable - at this rate, in the not too distant future there will be very few British orienteers left.

Although, of course, for those of us who are aged between 18 and 40 it is also a lot more fun if we aren't the only person in that age group at an event (I've been to a few).

And just stop worrying about the lack of Uni clubs - if people want to orienteer at Uni they will, if they don't, then it doesn't really matter.

But surely orienteering at university is much more fun if you do have a club? And it's certainly much easier - personally, I'd rather organise transport to events as part of an established collective than as a lone fresher who knows nobody in the area.

[graeme]

the fact that the demographic of orienteering is quite a lot of juniors, a dip in the 20s/30s age-class and then a rise again for people in late 30s and 40s upwards.

Trouble is, its not a fact. The demographic is quite a lot of juniors (most of whom quit at 17/18, like in many other sports) and a bunch of people who started in the 80s. These latter people bring in friends of their own age group and their children. And they are aging at a rate of about one year per annum , which explains Scott's facts.

In the 80s, there was no "dip" in the 20s/30s age-class. Orienteering isn't naturally an old-persons' sport.

[SeanC]

There's always going to be somewhat of a drop in the 20's to 30's, but if you can keep a third or half of potential drop outs in the sport then that makes a big difference to total numbers as orienteers will have on average a much longer orienteering life.

I may be shouted at this point, but I don't think orienteering is a particularly family friendly sport. At least compared to the competition. It's a good sport when the kids are a bit older and fine on yellow courses, but aged up to at least 8 or so they need string or tag courses and these are sadly few and far between. By the time children are old enough for standard cross country courses the parents are likely to be taking junior to other activities and orienteering may never get on the agenda. So relying on former orienteers taking up orienteering again when they have children seems too hopeful to me.

There's other good reasons for keeping people in sport in their 20's. If you give up on sport expect a few years of injuries when you re-start. Some will get fat and unfit and think they are beyond sport. We've all met them in the pub, the ones who say "I used to be a great rugby player/hockey player/runner etc. but now I just do 9 ounce curls" (beer drinking).

[Scott]

And they are aging at a rate of about one year per annum

Perhaps BOF should just invest in a bulk order of this stuff.

[RJ]

An awful lot of analysis going on.... all pointing in the despondency direction!

Open your eyes.... there are clubs out there that have expanding memberships and with 21s included. Many are doing an awful lot of work to achieve that, but it is happening! In your own club do you have a 'plan' for the future? It is important, if you are going to put effort into recruitment, that you design a plan and then implement it.

Actually, the same goes for Uni clubs. What general 'aim' do the current members of a Uni (any Uni, not any particular one) have? To have a good time? Of course you need a critical mass of members but it is important to set goals. Winning BUSA is good, but perhaps maintaining a strong membership could be another, or getting a strong link with the local club.

IMO one of the main problems with the sport is the lack of sufficient areas to use for orienteering. If you have a load of TD3 parks, bits of open ground etc, then you can design competitions that require limited skills to take part. Include more people in 'simple' orienteering, coach them, bring them into mainstream sport with time. Just map anything that might give you a 2km course and then have sprint competitions. Then have a regular 'low level/informal' event structure with something every week.

[Mrs H]

well i know you don't want me to think about university orienteering - but I can't stop ideas coming into my head - at least if I get them down on paper i can forget about them and then you can ignore them.

they've probably got more to do with BOF than BUSA anyway.

the first is that i understand that some University Clubs include members from a variety of other educational establishments in the same city - which is fine with BOF but not BUSA. I was wondering whether it would be a good idea for BOF to piggy back it's own competition onto BUSA including these combined team members who probably don't go unless they have a chance in the individuals. It probably won't produce different winners but would/could make more teams eligible and enhance the competition by attracting more people and perhaps enhance the sport back in these ancillary institutions.

the other idea concerns cities where there are no university clubs. I was thinking lots of club orienteers and ex-schools orienteers probably end up in the same city at various seats of learning but never get to meet up or know of each others existence. I was wondering if BOF could establish a virtual meeting place for these loan orienteers to make contact - with the possibility of forming teams and travelling to competitions without the hassle and responsibility of forming a proper club - of course that might follow in the fullness of time. It's more about keeping the orienteers we have than recruitment.

anyway - that a couple of things for the "dedicated" development officer to get his teeth into. I'll go back to housewifely matters now.

[Matt L]

Mrs H,

On your first idea:
I feel it would be damaging to the focus of the BUCS event if BOF attempted to supply what would effectively be a comprehensive rival scoring system. I agree with your diagnosis of the problem, but not your proposed solution. Instead, I suggest universities create their own 'matches' around BUCS. Well done to those in the Birmingham and Warwick clubs for trying to develop this kind of rivalry. Indeed, such rivalries may in due course grow to host their own Varsity-style matches. From my experience the OUOC-CUOC Varsity match is a great event for fostering both high level competition and drawing new people into the sport.

On your second idea:
I love the sentiment. My greatest doubt however is whether any student would ever stumble across this facility. How many students who use Nopesport have ever logged into the BOF website for example? It seems to me that a given student would have to be looking for fellow orienteers already and for that they could do worse than posting a wanted thread on this forum or putting up a poster on their SU noticeboard.