BUCS 2009

[harry]

It's a mixture of the 3 I think. I have spent nearly 2 years out of the last 5 in Scandinavia and now I speak all 3 languages really badly. Out of the 3, relative to how good I ought to be in each, my Norwegian is probably the best.

Not as impressive as Tessa Hill though, who learnt Norwegian in about 5 seconds and speaks it with a completely unidentifiable accent, it confuses people massively! I confuse people too but only because I look vaguely Scandi and they can't understand why I speak like an immigrant. It's all fun.

[Dave]

how do you people fit so much moaning time into one day?

[Roger]

Good to read how passionate everybody is about their Uni club.
Shame there are so few of them.

Apart from hearing about the top performances, BUSA etc had largely passed me by for about two decades until I was employed in the Old Codger role for this year's relays. When checking the maps just before the event (BTW it was no accident that, unlike last year or indeed in some of the classes at the British Relays, the top teams were on different gaffles) I was looking at a list of relay teams. And I was horrified how many of the University Clubs that I remembered weren't on the list. Warwick was a welcome addition, but I wrote down fifteen clubs that didn't have relay teams. (Some of them did have one or two competitors at this year's individual.)

Clubs that I remember turning up in particularly large or vocal numbers were Manchester, Leeds, Wales, Southampton and ULOC (London; it's true that Imperial were there this year), but there were plenty of others too. BUSF / BSSF was about twice the size, and I was very proud in my last year of competition to earn a relay medal. Even the beer race was more competitive. I think that we've lost something, and I concur with geomorph that it's a shame.

But to put it into context, numbers at big events like the JK were also about double what they now are. And once a student club gets small, extinction is never far away. It's no good laying the blame at the door of the present generation of students and saying that 'if only they did some development work then all would be well'. I hadn't realised quite how sparse the university orienteering scene had become.

For me, learning the sport together, socialising together, training together and feeling part of a team together (beer race or O-race) were all important. But the thrill of the sport itself was all-important in keeping me orienteering rather than joining the Rubik Cube Speed Solvers. Making the sport visible to and accessible by students in universities that presently lack a club will surely pay dividends.

[harry]

If LUOC (Leeds) has died then it's a real shame. I was at Leeds til 2003 and we were limping along then but the club's past was impressive. Coachloads to events, the Chemic and superstars like Alun Powell. It's all documented in an old notebook full of hilarious Leeds Student cuttings that is hopefully safe somewhere.
Young orienteers take note it's still worth going to Leeds Uni! Great cross country club and running scene in general, there is a sprint map of the campus now and local club AIRE seem really proactive. I hope the LUOC reforms!

I'll speak up for Glasgow too. Despite battered mars bar reputation it's a fantastic City for running and sport in general. Some orienteering. Great hill running scene.

[SYO Member]

Let's just get this right. We shouldn't post as registered members on a public forum in case our view is different from what other members think it should be?

It's no wonder we all know orienteers who we are surprised do not post here, and others who used to be regulars but have now disappeared.

It might be rare for me to have posted something controversial, but to be honest, I'm not really bothered one way or the other regarding the BUCS overall result 'issue', even if it is none of my business.

Strange though how there are varying views. Scott says the team competition is a bit daft, some say it's all about being the top university, and others say it's about participation which may or may not achieve the same, even though currently, it's always going to be won by one of the big 4.

Like Roger, I also have happy memories of 4 consecutive BUSFs organised by Oxford, Nottingham, Edinburgh and Sheffield with associated socials, many universities attending and long may it continue. It had also largely passed me by until I assisted SHUOC when they held the 2003 BUSA Relays at Howell & West Haigh.

By the way, in future, can someone let me know which threads are OK for me to post in?

[Godders]

Although there wasn't an overall BSSF/BUSA result previously there did used to be the Churchill Cup. This was an inter university knockup cup with the final being held at BUSA when I was a student.

The biggest problem now is the lack of juniors in orienteering. There used to be sufficient juniors going to university to help maintain clubs at most universities and recruit newcomers. In Scotland there used to be active clubs at Glasgow, Strathclyde, Herriot Watt, St Andrews, Dundee and Aberdeen.

Having lost juniors we've now lost one of the best recruitment tools for the sport and now have very few orienteers in their 20s.

[Mrs H]

I really wouldn't worry about it or bother spending any time thinking about how you could help - the figures show it's under perfect control .

and to think I was actually contemplating giving up my time to travel to godawful Matlock to help hand out money to a bunch of arsy kids - i hope they get someone even more codgery than me to do it

Midlands housewives may be much despised on this forum - but are there so many other people who have been prepared to loan you money, (so Rocky if it's not your responsibility any more who's is it?) fight your corner, think of ways to make the sport more fun and sit on tedious committees for your benefit?

I leave you in the hands of Eddie and the devoted development officer - let's hope they are both very devoted and the fact that they are both be paid to foster your interests should at least guarantee some results

[geomorph]

Shame there are so few of them. Concentration in just a few locales is not where we should be. Yes I can understand good orienteers wanting to be close to the better terrains and alongside similar standard athletes, but we've a fair number of instances where this has not mattered in terms of personal achievement.

So what you're saying is there should be artificial restrictions on where elite orienteers can go to university? Want to go to Sheffield? Sorry they've got two elites this year you'll have to pick somewhere else.

Not even entered my mind.

What is said is that the rationale for choosing a Uni based on a strong existing club is not necessarily going to give you great orienteering, and we've a number of successful folk who have not chosen these universities (but would they have done better had they done so?).

What is said is that it is sad that the number of Uni clubs is so small, and as a result are we missing inspiring newcomers?

No doubt out there there are mainstream clubs who work hard at recruiting from their local clubless-Uni, and such Uni's are ideal candidates for 'local' (edit: satellite) branches.

By the way, anybody up for an Alumnii relay next year?

[graeme]

By the way, anybody up for an Alumnii relay next year?

Nope. BUCS is for students. Keep the codgers and housewives out (unless they're doing something useful like roger).

[SeanC]

Yes, seems reasonable that student events should be for students (though some students are old codgers )

However there is a money making opportunity here. There was no event in the south east on Sunday. Those controls were out and the map had been made. Even a simple score event might have attracted 150 codgers and families. If you could keep the codgers event separate (different time, car park, organised by a different club?). but re-use the handy map and controls, then that could generate a good profit which could be ploughed back into a student orienteering development fund. The sort of thing a uni development officer might try and get going in future?

[SYO Member]

SYO had a Colour Coded event in conjunction with the 2003 BUSA Relays at Howell and West Haigh, both using a new map. C-C starts were 10:00-12:00 and BUSA started at 12:30.

[RJ]

....and to think I was actually contemplating giving up my time to travel to godawful Matlock to help hand out money to a bunch of arsy kids - i hope they get someone even more codgery than me to do it .......

Tell us you just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning..... or you have a horrible migraine..... or the leftovers of a hangover from a 'cheap Sainbury wine offer' bottle from last night.....

godawful Matlock...... arsy kids...... No, that is insulting and quite unacceptable! If orienteering isn't 'cutting it' for you..... British Tennis is in need of a wake-up!

[Mrs H]

..and you can piss off too!

[andy]

where's the nopesport love gone?

[wonderboy]

Junior orienteers flock to Sheffield or Edinburgh because it is EASY to do so. They will know people there already, or be going there with current friends. It is easier to motivate yourself to train, because your friends are doing the sessions too, and there is enough critical mass of people that you can get to a fair few events. I would say that Oxford has always fallen into this category too, and they certainly attend more events than any other Uni club. But, speaking to orienteers at these Uni's, "O" is their life. All their friends are from orienteering, all their socialising is with orienteers, they live with orienteers. If you are happy with this, then that is fine.

One of the best decisions I ever made was to not go to Edinburgh or Sheffield. I made many great friends outside orienteering and still kept in contact with those in orienteering. I still had the motivation and love of the sport to attend many events and go training too. I also tried other sports.

You can do fine at any other Uni, IF you are motivated. Motivated to train with the athletics and cross country club, motivated to find local public "O" club memebers to get lifts with, motivated to start a club and recruit if you wish. However it is hard; in 9 years I have introduced 50 new people to orienteering and none of them are active post Uni. I'm afraid the nature of the sport is very time consuming, involved, a slow lead in time to success, and requires advanced time organisation. For most people in their 20's there are simply too many other easy alternatives. Unless you are mad keen, or an elite level, I always believe there will be a gap in participation profile between 20-40 yrs old. So student recruitment will always seem a frustrating activity. You can only hope those people will come back to the sport in later years (and there is evidence to suggest they do).