High entry fee for HH National event

[distracted]

awk - I didn't just mean this past year - the impression I have is that event fees have changed very little over the last 5+ years... you're still paying around £7-9 for your average badge-type event.

[Mark T]

I can see the accounts now....

Income £57,835.67 expenditure £57,835.67 !!

Funny that's what they normally produce. Vote with your feet and don't go.

If the land owners want huge amounts to run on their land the simple answer is don't pay it and don't run on their land. For this, so called, family sport, for 4 of us to enter this event would cost £45, the 4 maps we would use would cost less than £2! It's a joke BOF should get involved and cap entry fees.

[SeanC]

Personally I hope HH make a decent profit to compensate for all their hard work and all this grief!

HH have only one area suitable for a national event (I'm assuming Ashridge isn't big enough) so if we say HH aren't allowed to use Burnham Beeches because of land use costs, we are therefore saying HH can't put on National events. That would be a waste of their talents and would put more pressure on other clubs.

If you want cheaper fees come to Greenwich Park on saturday which will cost a family £8. There are more and more cheap local events like this to choose from. You won't get the technical challenge, the level of competition, radio controls or see many trees, but it will be a nice day out anyway. It depends what you want. If you want cheap - many orienteering events provide it. I don't think those that want a quality national event should be inhibited by those that want cheap.

[egocentric pothunter]

The problem with budgeting for an event is the unknown. When mad mike posted the list of his breakdown, I'd completely forgotton the BOF levy!! So at mad mike's costing, to break even the cost would have to be £12. That does not take into account any contingency plans. Nor repair/replacement of kit, nor prizes( and they would be nice wouldn't they?) I must confess I did grumble at the cost of BOC 2009, but with published accounts, preferably included with results, there might be less moaning. To be honest I was gobsmacked at BOC2008 budget!

As a family I would appreciate lower entry fees, but that can only come about through sponsorship, a lower levy to BOF, or more competitors...and that is another whole can of worms!

Thanks for putting up the costings.

[Mrs H]

....and of course there will probably be a regional levy - professional first aid cover - possibly bottled water and maybe even marquee hire - I think you better take an organiser's course before your undertake arranging a big event EP - you may find there's more to it than meets the eye!

[egocentric pothunter]

....and of course there will probably be a regional levy - professional first aid cover - possibly bottled water and maybe even marquee hire - I think you better take an organiser's course before your undertake arranging a big event EP - you may find there's more to it than meets the eye!

I know that organisers are damned if the do, and damned if they don't...having been a mere cog in the organisation of both JKs and BOC in the past it is amazing how costs mount up. The point of my posting was to point out to the feet voters that, in light of the costs involved, £15 is actually quite reasonable!

BTW i have a diploma in the Organisation of Brewery Festivities!

[LostAgain]

I likewise was taken aback by the price of this event. Having a large family it seemed steep. We are members of the most expesnive club in Yorkshire

One of the causes for these costs put forward is the need for a prestigious event and it's trappings. It would be interesting to see how many of the FCC competitors actually have to pay the full costs Vs the student/junior rate.

I'm not sure what the expectation is for a National Event? It did not used to be marques, commentary and prizes, this was the differentiator for the JK and BOC.

It's also not so long ago that our Elite competitors did not want to be at the same events and held their own closed events. It would be a little ric if they were now included and made excessive demands and thus increased the cost to JO Average.

[madmike]

One of the causes for these costs put forward is the need for a prestigious event and it's trappings. It would be interesting to see how many of the FCC competitors actually have to pay the full costs Vs the student/junior rate.

sorry, I am probably being a bit thick Lost Again but what is the point you are making here?

[madmike]

I'm not sure what the expectation is for a National Event? It did not used to be marques, commentary and prizes, this was the differentiator for the JK and BOC.

And this is the difference is supposed to disappear in the new event structure, which is why some people comparing a new level 1 event with an old level 2 or 3 are missing the point

Or maybe I'm the one missing the point and the large number of people helping me put the event on have been wasting our time and effort?

I'd like to be clear that I'm not having a go at you Lost Again - your questions are entirely reasonable. However, I am trying to make people aware of the thought process that went into the event and why the costs are quite high - some of the posters on this thread clearly won't care about the logic (or the facts) and will just continue to throw mud.

[LostAgain]

Hi Mike,
I am not disputing the costs involved.

I'm more questioning the need for the incurred costs. There are statements regarding the need for a prestigious event etc etc.

In days gone by, the prestigious events were restricted to the JK and BOC. Costs incurred charged etc.

National events dd not seem to have the additional trappings but were none the less on "Best" terrain and planned/controlled by the experienced.

How much of the additional costs are incurred due to the requirements of FCC, which in turn are not actually met by the competitors for whom this matters due to reduced entry fees?

My understanding is that there are no additional requirements for Interland, the event probably being chosen because these additional "prestigious" outgoing were being made for FCC.

Edited poor spelling!

[Gross]

BTW i have a diploma in the Organisation of Brewery Festivities!

And I have a diploma in Lithuanian language.... all it does is makes me a smart arse

[EddieH]

Lost Again wrote [quote]It's also not so long ago that our Elite competitors did not want to be at the same events and held their own closed events. It would be a little ric if they were now included and made excessive demands and thus increased the cost to JO Average.[/quote]

I hope that this is very much a minority anti-elite viewpoint. As someone who NEVER broke into the elite ranks this is nonsense.

Firstly the elite in general did NOT "not want to be at the same events..." - there was considered by the powers that be to be a situation where the British Champs was being put on totally inadequate areas or at the wrong time of year, one that was sadly reinforced in the brambles of Clumber Park. There was always a preference for a combined event.

Secondly, I can hardly see that the elite are asking for any more costly facilities - having run as a guest at a BEOC I can assure you there were NO frills whatsoever. Perpetrating such ideas can only drive a wedge between participants and thus harm our sport.

[madmike]

BTW i have a diploma in the Organisation of Brewery Festivities!

And I have a diploma in Lithuanian language.... all it does is makes me a smart arse

methinks there are already too many smart arses on this thread

[madmike]

Hi LA, thanks for the reply.

How much of the additional costs are incurred due to the requirements of FCC, which in turn are not actually met by the competitors for whom this matters due to reduced entry fees?!

Short answer is none. The additional effort for FCC is primarily for the entry team in terms of seedings/start times but no effect on cost just extra effort for the willing volunteers.

My understanding is that there are no additional requirements for Interland, the event probably being chosen because these additional "prestigious" outgoing were being made for FCC.

You are right with the first statement but wrong with the second clause.

The "prestigious bells and whistles" were added by me (after consulting a few people whose opinions I value) as this is the first Level 1 /Area Champs under the new event guidelines, which of course envisaged national events being a thing of the past. However, 2009 then became the "transition year" where we have a mix of old national events and new level 1 area champs. 2010 will, hopefully, be less confusing.

[LostAgain]

Thanks Mike for an informed input. I appreciate the hard work put in by all involved and have entered, despite the cost. A captive parent

With respect to Eddie's comment regarding the desire by the Elite to run at the same event, specifically BOC, but in the 90's found the terrain inadequate. I'd argue their (Elite's) requirements are not so different to Jo Average who also would prefer our Permier annual events to be on appropriate terrain. Shame self imposed constraints prevent this.