High entry fee for HH National event

[madmike]

The usual arguments being trotted out - it's only part of a weekend involving travel, accommodation etc; all that extra value; etc. etc. Frankly, I don't care. If we see an event as being too expensive, we won't enter. We didn't enter Burnham pretty much on cost reasons alone - not just the price of the event, but also because two long hauls south in two weekends is too much both in terms of time costs and financial costs. Not a decision we wanted to make, but that's life.

Why miss a National/Interland/FCC event when O is your sport? Simple - because there are other events which are cheaper and more fun. Experience has show us that Nationals often don't provide the best events by a long chalk (at least ones we enjoy the most) - I can't think of one from last year that ranked amongst our favourites (other than British/JK, see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9205#p101834). There are plenty of good quality events and weekends away at half the entry price, and this price difference adds up over time.

To be honest, we entered the British pretty much without thinking, and I'm regretting that on financial grounds.

None of this is a moan - simply an explanation of why we're not entering events like Burnham.

I respect your choice once they moved BOC to the adjacent weekend, I expected a significant drop in entry particularly from those travelling from the North and even asked the Committee to consider cancelling our event

[madmike]

We've just entered the National event and were a bit put out by the cost It's the same amount as the BOC, but what will we get for our money. Seems a bit steep compared to similar events held recently. Hope it's all singing and dancing!
Perhaps somebody from HH can enlighten us

That's the aim Tatty, radio controls, commentary, etc What other Level 1 events have been held recently?

[madmike]

I too have been put off by the entry fee especially as there will be a guaranteed entry with FCC, Southern Champs and Interland. The only reason I will be going is because it's a "National" and my lad wants to attend "Nationals" to get championship pts - if it wasn't a National we would not be going and as it is it will only be me and the lad, wife and daughter not going - to expensive. Oh and of course there's the obligatory No dogs rule which has been applied - I tell you - I'll be looking out for flocks of sheep or herds of deer in the car park in Beaconsfield. I haven't entered yet and may just enter the lad and take my old BB map and go for a run around the woods - keep raising the prices lads, I'll make my protest by not entering and go run/climb up a mountain for free.

I'd rather you went to your mountain rather than tresspassing on private land! Sorry if that sounds unsympathetic

[madmike]

For what it's worth, I specifically decided not to enter this event because I felt it was too expensive. (I'm sure there is a good reason why it is so much - access costs maybe?)

spot on Haggis

[lakesorunner]

There is always a reason - these prices aren't (or shouldn't be) just plucked out of thin air.

no land permission = no event!

It's worth us all remembering this once in a while - our whole sport revolves round other peoples good will and generosity (even if it costs us sometimes). Talk to most organisers of big events, and they will give a list as long as your arm of land-owners, tenants, farmers, locals, etc, etc they have been nice to so we can all enjoy our days running...
In order to state why Graythwaite was £12.50 for a National - and hasn't been changed now it's a Regional...

Access costs, and also updates to the map (drawn 1998 - lots of felling and storms since). Just remember, however, that without access or a map, we don't have a sport...

But... you will still be running on one of the best areas in England, with one of the best planners in the game, and it is being run at the best time of year (little undergrowth, good visibility, nice sunshine (hopefully!)) . And it's still a FCC and Northern Champs, so there should be lots of good competition on all classes for you all to run against... As awk says - the entry is only part of the w/e costs.
Don't forget there is also the British Orienteering training day the day before so you can all get to the start line both mentally and physically prepared.

[madmike]

For what it's worth I agree, in particular because Burnham Beeches should need close to zero remapping, having been used for major events in 2006 (National) and 2007 (CSC qualifier). Not sure what will be provided can justify the £7 premium over a typical regional event (unless there really is freshly squeezed OJ).

Looks like a bit of a case of monopolistic pricing - if you want the Champs points, the FCC points, qualify for various other races, you haven't got much choice than to enter, so they might as well set the price high.

Is there any control on price setting for this sort of event, or can the club alone decide?

I am sure the mappers/planners would love to know that they didn't need to remap all the forestry work and new fenced enclosures

I'll publish the budget to disprove your monoplistic assertion

No having got estimates on costs I decided on the price - i would reiterate no intent to fleece anyone

[madmike]

The acronym FCC guarantees parents will take their competitive juniors to such events , irrespective of cost, as they don't want their offspring to be disadvantaged. Junior-less punters should vote with their feet and IMO should be joined by these families who feel obliged to enter irrespective of the cost.

vote away - junior entries are lower than I estimated!

[madmike]

Why are you all on here moaning again? What's the problem? Why is there this inherent idea that event entry fees should be the bare minimum possible and just about cover costs? Why do orienteers have this strange mentality that an event entry two or three quid above what you might expect is suddenly good enough reason not to go?

This is the first of the new Area Championships - it is meant to be the top of the tree in terms of quality and provision and I would expect the facilities you would get at a top level championships event. The status of the event means that you also have an FCC race, plus it is deemed good enough to have an international competition running alongside. In the majority of other sports/activities, if you were only charging 15 quid for one of your top level events they'd probably think that was cheap! There is a reason people link cost and quality... as ultimately, you get what you pay for.

The relative proportion that an entry fee makes up is nothing compared to transport costs, food & accommodation for those staying overnight if doing the Chasing Sprint as well. And how have event entry costs changed over the years? - my bet would be nowhere near the amount food/petrol have gone up in the last year alone, if it is anywhere near the rate of inflation I'd be surprised.

thank - you for some common sense

[madmike]

Whilst not knowing what sort of charges HH are having to pay for land access etc, it seems a bit steep when you consider that I attended a perfectly acceptable colour coded event last Sunday. EOD (so the organising club took to risk of a poor-turn out if the scary weather forecast put people off) bang up-to-date map, overprinted and bagged, electronic punching, free parking within 150 yds of start and finish, well planned course - only downside was lack of loos (unless you bought something at the shop in the parking area), but we knew that so stopped at nearby Tesco's - and all this for just £3.50.

imho you are comparing apples with tuesdays but I would say that wouldn't I

[madmike]

I am surprised that some posts are suggesting they will not enter this Championship Event because it is a few quid more than a Regional Event. I admit to having noticed the discrepancy in pricing between this Event and Graythwaite (which is also FCC) and wondered why (it would be nice to know) but it won't stop us going. Why miss a National /FCC/Interland Event when O is your sport? I don't expect footie fans would miss a Champions League Match because the ticket prices were more than a usual Saturday game.

I am in your gang on this one - not got access to Graythwaite budget but suspect differences will be land access, commentary, radio controls etc

[madmike]

There is always a reason - these prices aren't (or shouldn't be) just plucked out of thin air.

no land permission = no event!

it's worth us all remembering this once in a while - our whole sport revolves round other peoples good will and generosity (even if it costs us sometimes). Talk to most organisers of big events, and they will give a list as long as your arm of land-owners, tenants, farmers, locals, etc, etc they have been nice to so we can all enjoy our days running...
Access costs, and also updates to the map (drawn 1998 - lots of felling and storms since). Just remember, however, that without access or a map, we don't have a sport...

agree completely - also worth remembering without volunteers we don't have a sport either

[egocentric pothunter]

I think all events should post accounts. £15 does seem quite expensive, I would be very interested in the break down of an individual's fee.
Map=£1
Loos = £ 1
Land access= £2 per entrant
Car Parking (if not charged over and above) £1
Radio Controls/commentary £1
Replacement/hire/ or purchase of e punching equipment £1
Club expenses in terms of advertising, expenses of officials etc £1

That comes to £8. I have no idea if this is accurate, but I bet many people think it is.

Does any one have accounts they could share?

[madmike]

Agree with you on posting accounts - it seems to be becoming more common these days anyway

I think all events should post accounts. £15 does seem quite expensive, I would be very interested in the break down of an individual's fee.
Map=£1
Loos = £ 1
Land access= £2 per entrant
Car Parking (if not charged over and above) £1
Radio Controls/commentary £1
Replacement/hire/ or purchase of e punching equipment £1
Club expenses in terms of advertising, expenses of officials etc £1

That comes to £8. I have no idea if this is accurate, but I bet many people think it is.

Does any one have accounts they could share?

well here are some for starters BOF/SE Levy is £3/competitor, map likely to be 2-3£/competitor as litho printing, land access will depend on number who run in various bits but estimate approaching£3/competitor, loos currently over your £1 but if there is a last minute rush that could come down to your £1 or even below, Hire of raodway so you can get in and out of car park should be in the order of £1/competitor!

The BOC 2008 budget is on another thread - I'll try and find it and post it on this thread

My intent is to publish the budget and also compare it with the 1972 event budget which I have been given

[madmike]

BOC 2008 Budget:

19,731.13

largest cost drivers were:

Mapping 4,500
Map printing 1,850
car park 900
emit 2,000
prizes 1,000
toilets 687 (comment toilets are cheape rin Scotland!)
sundries 1,000
internet entry 1,801.13
officials expenses 2,500

[awk]

And how have event entry costs changed over the years? - my bet would be nowhere near the amount food/petrol have gone up in the last year alone, if it is anywhere near the rate of inflation I'd be surprised.

Being a bit sad, this intrigued me, so thought would follow up. Whilst food prices did rise by a steep 11.8% in 2008 (BBC news report), fuel prices have decreased in the past year. According to the AA monthly fuel price reports, the national average price for unleaded petrol has fell from 104.3p per litre to 89.5p, and diesel has fallen from 109.2p to 100.3p.

I agree that longer term trends are the other way but, as anybody invested in oil will tell you, the past few months has seen a steep drop in the price of oil!

The Retail Price Index currently shows an annual inflation rate of 0.9%. Consumer Price Index is at 3.1%. So taking even the higher of the two, event entries should have risen around 30-45p this year for Nationals/JK etc. if matching the rest of inflation. (The RPI is aimed more at expenditure of private households, like ours, so if matching that, should be in the range of 9-14p increase per day).

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to track down prices for events last year*, but if you can, you can make whatever comparisons you like.

*I've found prices for last year's JK, and this year's organisers have done well to hold them at the same levels, so for that specific event, you might win your bet (unless comparing with the cost of fuel!). Other events?