New Race Formats

[Gnitworp]

I propose new race fomats for World Championships (both Men and Women) and, in principle, every one else as follows:

Long: winning time 90 minutes
Classic: winning time 60 minutes
Short: winning time 30 minutes

Discuss

[andy]

but but

Sprint races

[Kitch]

assuming
Long is primarily a route choice exercise
Classic is proper orienteering
then what is short ?

[Gnitworp]

Long is primarily a route choice exercise
Classic is proper orienteering
then what is short ?

Long and Classic are both 'proper' orienteering; the most technically challenging courses of the duration that the planner can set in the area, testing all skills.

Short is the same in character to existing sprints but lasting longer; 'sprint for the mind', if you like, but for tougher and more durable minds where the luck element is diminished and arguably a more worthy champion results

[Gnitworp]

I think the most compelling argument for shorter 'sprint' (15 rather than 30 min winning time) races is that many suitable areas do not elegantly support longer races and I may be persuaded to concede to the suitability of the existing sprint race length on this basis only, not because they are a better test of a particular type of orienteering in themselves.

[mharky]

What is the point in this thread? What are you trying to achieve by starting it?

There is nothing wrong with the current WOC set up. Ok, from 2005-2009 the Long races havn't been all that technical, but with Norway and France that should change.

There is a good mix. The sprint is run at a much higher tempo to the middle, it tests discipline, routine and control under pressure. The middle offers a true technical challenge, where top orienteering speed not top running speed will decide the victor. The Long shows who has got the mettle to last it out for 95 mins.

Your proposed system has 2 races which are essentially the same.

Are you ever going to be running in the World Champs, is anyone who every replies to this going to be running in a World Champs??? Stop messing abuot with stuff that doesn't concern you.

[Gnitworp]

What does concerns me is 'translating' the definitions of orienteering disciplines for the O World at large of which I am a part.

Does the fact that I don't compete in world championships disqualify me from commenting on the status quo. I compete in WMOC races and they need to conform to a formula compatible with orienteering race definitions; we need to agree those definitions.

Not to question is not to progress.

Definitions have changed for the better in the past; there is no reason to suppose they will not change again; I am simply trying to stimulate argument to that end.

[graeme]

Are you ever going to be running in the World Champs, is anyone who every replies to this going to be running in a World Champs???

Pessimist ...
Anyway, has anyone who designed the current rules gone on to run in the World Champs?

Discuss

The WOC format changes every few years, so it is worth discussing. Since I started relay has gone from 3 to four and back. Classic has turned into long. Short appeared and disappeared, middle and sprint have appeared. Timetable (and therefore sensible combinations) seems to change every time. Like Mharky: I think the current formats are OK, I would prefer to see technical classic than "long". I would also prefer a timetable to allow all the best people in every race.

[Scott]

But what about:

• Novelty Score-O - 60mins - including at least one control on an island/boat in the middle of a lake/river/other impassable water feature, and a roving control consisting of a man in the national dress of the host country holding an SI box who will only allow you to punch once you've solved an anagram.
• Night Street-O - 45mins - testing the vital orienteering skill of being able to accurately write a streetlamp number on your sweaty scrunched-up map using a dried-out biro whilst avoiding being run over by a cyclist with no lights.
• Campus Alc-O - 3x10mins loops - including lager, vodka and coke, and White Lightning rounds, before requiring finishers to down a shot of tabasco sauce. Time penalties of 1min per 100ml of vomit for anyone who throws up.

I feel that the last discipline in particular would have a particularly high spectator and televisual appeal, as well as offering Britain an almost-guaranteed podium place.

[mharky]

You were asking the nope public about your new and improved WOC disciplines. The nope public that is essentially 35+ and most of whom have very little knowledge of interntaional standards of racing.

Now you are saying it's because you are trying to define what these WOC disciplines mean...???

WOC disciplines are not the status qou, are they? Most of our "sprint" races are 6-8km and are taking at least 35 mins. Our long races are planned around a 67 minute time for an international M21 (how many events actually meet this specification?), which is 30 mins short of a Long race. How many middle races are there in the UK in a year?

It doesn't matter to the general BOF public what type of racing goes on at WOC, domestic racing is different.

People seem to like these longer urban races, that's fine. Keep it like that if it's what they want. Don't suddenly ask if the IOF should be changing WOC.

Your questioning is not progressive.

[Gnitworp]

But what about:

[[*]Campus Alc-O - 3x10mins loops - including lager, vodka and coke, and White Lightning rounds, before requiring finishers to down a shot of tabasco sauce. Time penalties of 1min per 100ml of vomit for anyone who throws up.[/list]
I feel that the last discipline in particular would have a particularly high spectator and televisual appeal, as well as offering Britain an almost-guaranteed podium place.

Provided, to comply with current BOF Regs, imbibers remain at least 30 metres apart

[Gnitworp]

It doesn't matter to the general BOF public what type of racing goes on at WOC, domestic racing is different.

I do however think that our Championships should follow the international championships standards. We know what this if for M/W21's not a problem. We've had some good British Elite Sprint Champs. The main focus now is trying to work out what the "age-class" champs should be.

We now also have 'Long' and 'Middle' age class championships to relate to 'international championship standards'

[DIDSCO]

The most important thing is to change the structure of the WOC week. It doesn't allow the best people to stand on the startline for every race.

As I've said before the WOC races should be split up over 2 years. 1 year the long and the relay, then the sprint and short the next year. I could even contemplate the sprint world champion achieving their status over a series of races during a mini-week program, (similar to PWT), or even a grand final after a series of qualifiers.

An individual sprint world champs week would also be easier to market than the current woc week for many obvious reasons. Could improve orienteering publicity level and image in general.

I'd also propose that sprint was changed to incorporate more of the toughness associated with real orienteering but still within a semi urban-forest environment.

[greywolf]

The most important thing is to change the structure of the WOC week. It doesn't allow the best people to stand on the startline for every race.

How so? it's not like all the races are the same day, and I've never seen any rules against doing all 3 individual events & the relay... yes the timetable makes it tougher so most pick and choose their best 1 or 2 events, just like athletics, where you don't see many folk doing 5000 / 10,000 / Marathon (don't think Zatopek had heats to worry about), and Said Aouita never got to do 800 / 1500 / 5000 at the same games, or cycling, or even cross-country. Strangely, never seems to bother the swimmers...

I have no insight into the minds of the IOF, but maybe they think it would be boring (or at least, not as good PR) if the same person won everything?

[Scott]

I have no insight into the minds of the IOF, but maybe they think it would be boring (or at least, not as good PR) if the same person won everything?

Not that it's stopped Mrs Niggli-Luder: all four golds in 2003 and 2005; two golds, one silver and one bronze in 2006; two golds and a bronze (and 4th in the relay, having been fastest on the last leg by nearly a minute) in 2007...