Sprint races - how long

[IanD]

I want different things at different times, but clear nomenclature at all times!

If an event is designated a "sprint", I'm happy with a 12-15 minute winning time. It's a "sprint", not a longer distance.

In some ways, we oldies have an advantage over M21 elites, in that we can choose a longer course at a sprint event. Their only options is the 12-15 minutes (for them) course. I may choose to enter M21, knowing that it will take me considerably longer.

I like urban sprint events, forest sprint events, longer urban events, and longer forest events. They've all got their place. But a "sprint" must be a short distance, that's why it has that name.

[Adrian]

I agree that the winning time for all classes in a proper short event should be 12-15 minutes. Because that's hardly worth getting out of bed for, never mind travelling halfway across the country, I maintain that short championships should usually be "best-of-two" events, with two races in the same or neighbouring areas within a couple of hours of each other. It would also be possible to hold a short event in the morning and a medium or classic event in the afternoon.

Most short events aren't proper short events though, they're urban events which don't (and shouldn't) follow the guidelines. The winning times should be more like 25-30 minutes.

[Gross]

agree that the winning time for all classes in a proper short event should be 12-15 minutes. Because that's hardly worth getting out of bed for, never mind travelling halfway across the country,

Tell that to all the runners at WOC etc etc

[mharky]

and tell it to Usain Bolt while you're at it!

[DM]

MDOC had a 2 part chasing sprint today, first in a series of 4. Easy area, 2.2 km then 3.7 (yes I know distances need to be more balanced). Good mix of beginners and the experienced, 75 total.

It seemed to go down well and generated more discussion at the end of the second part (which was a chasing start) than we normally see.

If anyone who went wants to comment positive or negative please go ahead so we can improve next time (14th Feb).

[LostOldTimer]

My personal preference for an 'average' orienteer - not the elite, as they can please themselves, and often do having their own races - British Champs / Sprint races etc...
Sprint races should also be the same as City races (I know you can have sprint races in parks as well, and these could be short, maybe a prologue and final at 2-3km each, but apart from a British Championship sprint race in this format, I would not travel far to compete in one), but the City 'sprint' races, I think should be full length courses, Open Men 8km, and winning times maybe 45 minutes, or longer. I have been to all York races, and Venice several times, and now London etc... and i agree, although getting tired and slower by the end, dont really want the challenge, fun , excitement and enjoyment to end; plus we want our moneys worth... paying £10 for 15 minutes isn't value for money... so Full length City 'sprint' races please.

[mharky]

stop calling them sprint races

[awk]

plus we want our moneys worth... paying £10 for 15 minutes isn't value for money... so Full length City 'sprint' races please.

They're a great form of orienteering I thoroughly agree, but sprints they're not, in name or in concept; nor should they be - sprint orienteering is very different. Fortunately, none of the races you quote, make the same mistake as you.

If you don't want to do sprint (or bother getting out of bed like Adrian), don't do them - simple. Personally, I've had all my money's worth at the sprints I've done (a fair number now). I do agree with Adrian that the two race format (heats and finals) are a good format, possibly best, but am quite happy doing one-offs. If we travel a long way, we make sure there's something else to do as well (even something non-orienteering: shock, horror!).

[graeme]

stop calling them sprint races

Not sure what you mean by "them". 15 minutes isn't a sprint any more than 35 minutes is. Nobody's running anaerobically here.

So we should either ditch the word altogether, or find our own meaning. We've (mis)used the word for a long time: the 16th JOK Chasing Sprint is this year http://www.jok.org.uk/chasing_sprint. BOF trademarked the name "SprintO" about 15 years ago. The IOF started using it for 12-15 minute elite courses and mapping standards rather more recently.

If we have to misuse the word, since nothing is a sprint in the physical sense, I like the "sprint for the mind" idea. Which means the rate of decision-making and level of detail on the map. What is clear is that a new type of orienteering has emerged, the defining feature being the use of the International Standards for Sprint Orienteering Maps. If people abbreviate "TD3 races held on International Standards for Sprint Orienteering Maps" to "sprint" that seems quite appropriate. It's certainly a different beast from old-style street races, 15 minute TD5 forest races, or new-style "orientators".

[mharky]

Sprint is an IOF discipline, if anyone's race doesn't fit that specification it cannot be called a sprint.

For example, the Marathon. This is officially 26.2 miles, that is what you expect, but it has also just come to mean something very long. The meadows marathon is 13.1 miles, the Marathon des Sables is 156 miles.

[Gnitworp]

If people abbreviate "TD3 races held on International Standards for Sprint Orienteering Maps" to "sprint" that seems quite appropriate. It's certainly a different beast from old-style street races, 15 minute TD5 forest races, or new-style "orientators".

The Sprint Finals at WMOC last year had some, if mostly very short, TD5 forest legs (can TD5 legs be very short?). They were certainly, in part, like the 15 minute forest races you mention. Were they, in your estimation, therefore 'legitimate' Sprint Races?

[graeme]

The Sprint Finals at WMOC last year had some, if mostly very short, TD5 forest legs (can TD5 legs be very short?). They were certainly, in part, like the 15 minute forest races you mention. Were they, in your estimation, therefore 'legitimate' Sprint Races?

If that's what WMOC presently calls "sprint", then fine. The 2004 British Sprint Champs at Ulpha Fell were legitimate too, but I doubt we'll see anything like that again.

Contrariwise, the current JK rules explicitly specify TD3. If I was controller, I'd certainly veto any TD5 stuff. If orange-competent M12 kids were sent out on TD5 when the rules said TD3 I'd expect their parents to be furious..

The inconsistency simply indicates that the nature of age-class sprint races isn't yet settled. Which is why I started the poll

Sprint is an IOF discipline, if anyone's race doesn't fit that specification it cannot be called a sprint.

Nonsense.

Like I said, BOF have the trademark for a much broader spectrum of races. JOK and others have prior usage of the term. "Short" used to be an IOF discipline - didn't stop us having age-class "short" races which were significantly longer!

And the IOF discipline Rules refer only to "Senior Elite competition", which isn't the point of my question here. For vets, there are currently different rules for different events. (e.g. Elite specify "lower" end of 12-15, WMOC guideline specifies the opposite: "higher" end: for me (M45) and you (M21) that would be the same course) I think it would be nice to standardize around what people actually want, otherwise we'll end up in the situation where the "Championship" is only event of a particular format (we're already getting that way with M21E classics).

It's worth remembering how long it took the IOF to get the elite sprint rules to what competitors liked (no more cliff jumping or river wading). It is unreasonable to expect
BOF to get it right first time.

[Gnitworp]

The key is giving the majority what they want and, from the evidence of this poll, they want a longer race than a 12-15 minute winning time for their age class gives them.

Are we are trying to graft an 'Elite' concept onto everyone else, which in itself anyway has been arbitrarily imposed?

The 12-15 minute Elite winning time originated with the Park World Tour; a televisable, highly spectator-visible, and within-their-interest-span event held in a public area that often would not elegantly accommodate a longer race.

There is nothing, in my view, inherently 'magical' about the 12-15 minute race duration to make it more deserving of being a distinct 'discipline'. Indeed, the shorter the race, the less the scope for compensating for luck elements, which even out in longer races. If there's virtue in itself in shortness, then a 5-7 minute sprint race ought to be a superior vehicle for the so called idea of 'sprint for the mind'.

[mharky]

I agree, I think our Urban races of ~8km are good, everyone likes them, they go down well.

I do however think that our Championships should follow the international championships standards. We know what this if for M/W21's not a problem. We've had some good British Elite Sprint Champs. The main focus now is trying to work out what the "age-class" champs should be. With regards to the age-class chams, then again I think this should mirror the WMOC sprint champs.

[Gnitworp]

Since urban races are so popular, why not have Urban Age Class British Championships rather than sprint?

Cater for the demand not the concept.

As Mharky has implied elsewhere, why try to inappropriately mirror elite disciplines?