changes to the 2009 fixture list

[RJ]

I agree completely with you awk on your analysis of the events mentioned. We really do have a 'mess' in the making.

One point worth mentioning is that most people are going to orienteer locally.... they won't want to travel miles (cost!)..... they know what is on offer because they have seen it before..... they know a lot of the competition and feel there is a 'race' to be had....

The idea that we need a new structure just to define the nature of events is flawed. The number of people who need to know what an event 150 miles away is going to be like is very limited.... and is more easily solved by 'chasing' the details on the net or the phone. MOST people start their orienteering through a club and won't be venturing afar until they have done quite a few events locally.

Return to the model of LOCAL, DISTRICT, REGIONAL and NATIONAL.

[NeilC]

On the subject of confusing, how confusing do you think it is for a newcomer who went to Swinsty (say) and achieved a yellow standard, to then look around for the next event and find an event in Leeds offering a yellow course - only to find out later that they can't get a yellow standard at that event?

Clubs are divided on how they name their local event courses - some use letter/numbers/decsriptors other stick to colours.

[geomorph]

I agree completely with you awk on your analysis of the events mentioned. We really do have a 'mess' in the making.

One point worth mentioning is that most people are going to orienteer locally.... they won't want to travel miles (cost!)..... they know what is on offer because they have seen it before..... they know a lot of the competition and feel there is a 'race' to be had....

The idea that we need a new structure just to define the nature of events is flawed. The number of people who need to know what an event 150 miles away is going to be like is very limited.... and is more easily solved by 'chasing' the details on the net or the phone. MOST people start their orienteering through a club and won't be venturing afar until they have done quite a few events locally.

Return to the model of LOCAL, DISTRICT, REGIONAL and NATIONAL.

Which is also flawed... travel distance is not the sole criterion on which to have a classification because it is geographically subjective. Which is the true 'local' event for me - the C2 10 miles away just across the 'boundary' in the next region, or my club's 'local' over 40 miles away (it has happened at that extreme but generally its C5 vs C3).

[RJ]

.......travel distance is not the sole criterion on which to have a classification......

Agreed! But it is the main and overriding criterion. You can always find a C2/C3 that ends up closer to you than your club's local event. A C2 is still a C2.... it doesn't become a C5 just because it is closer to you!

[BandD]

My problem is that I don't really know what people are talking about when they say C2 and C3. I have to translate into English.
AND in any case even the English is misleading-
"National" has never really meant on the ground national. It was a good idea but it never really took off, especially once the cost of travel went up and the motorway orienteering circuit ended.
For some reason the 21 elite binned the idea very early on.
District events have always welcomed competitors from outside the district
and so on.
So why can't orienteering adopt a "what is says on the can policy"?
E.G.
SCOTTISH CHAMPIONSHIP AND OPEN RANKING EVENT (20 Age Group COURSES 1-14k)
(That means it is a closed championships with Scots taking the trophies while others are more than welcome to come and chase ranking points.)
INTERLOPERS RANKING EVENT (10 A/G COURSES) - Ranking events need age groups even if they are doubled up with M21, m35 and m40s all on the same course. Even if I don't , most people seem to want them.
CHIGWELL OPEN (4 C - 1.5 to 6km)
MANCHESTER JUNIOR OPEN (8c 1.5 to 6k))
GRAMPIAN CLUB TRAINING ( 4c 1-4k)
When you get there or when you are sending an entry your information will tell you C1 - 1.5km easy or C3 - 5km medium, C4 - 6km hard or even C5 - 6km rough going/ very hard)
By the way, whatever happened to badge events.
Do they still exist or do they only exist for people in the know.
Surely badges were one of the carrots aimed at attracting and keeping non-winners in the sport.
Surely, if they still exist, they should be a headline feature of a fixture.
Looks like we are about to do the same with the rankings.
Whatever happened to marketing?

[Snail]

RJ:

Return to the model of LOCAL, DISTRICT, REGIONAL and NATIONAL.

Not sure that I understand why you want a separate tier for "District" (presumably old-style colour-coded) events? I think most regions currently arrange that there only one (never more than two) C4 event(s) in their region on the same day. As such these really are "regional" events.

If you advocate that these should be "district" events, presumably your club is quite happy if all the neighbouring clubs put on a similar event on the same day?

[SeanC]

It's an interesting point about badge/colour awards.

I seem to remember back in the 80's these were much more popular. Orienteers sowing on their badges onto their o kit, magazines proudly announcing big lists of winners. Now I cannot find any mention of the awards on the BOF website. Most local events (and some district events) I go to don't calculate the colour times.

I get the feeling that in this internet age they are only popular with small children. These days we (the general public) don't expect to have to send off details in the post for an award, and maybe expect more of a fuss made (not just a polite letter).

Maybe both schemes need a complete re-think? If some big computer automatically calculated lists of competitors who had achieved the award, then emailed club secretaries who could give out prizes at club prizegivings this might make it more popular? Or maybe the scheme should be re-designed so its just for young children who respond well to this kind of award scheme. Or maybe if the sport can't support the schemes properly they should be quietly dropped?

[DM]

SeanC,

My understanding is that it has already been (very) quietly dropped. We tried to get more badges, as we were running out and were told sorry, scheme is being reviewed.

Pity as it has been very popular with the juniors.

[Red Adder]

When I startted O over 30 years ago I was told that Badges were initially aimed at juniors, but got adopted rapidly by adulkts as well. Don't know if this is true.

Colour codes do offer a standrad as well - the only trouble is that ladies and juniors senior seniors are automatically disadvantaged as standards are based on all competitors. The way standards are calculated have the beuty of being very simple but can easily be skewed by some one effectively running down and not being declared non-comp.

[SeanC]

DM wrote: "My understanding is that it has already been (very) quietly dropped. We tried to get more badges, as we were running out and were told sorry, scheme is being reviewed."

Is this the badge scheme (for regional events), or the other badge scheme (for colour coded events)?

Organisers reading this might be thinking that they can (quietly) save themselves half an hour's work and not calculate badge or colour times?????

[DM]

Sean C,

I was refering to the badge scheme for colour coded events. Sorry for the confusion.

[SeanC]

I guess if we're confused, then so will beginners.

[roadrunner]

The way standards are calculated have the beuty of being very simple but can easily be skewed by some one effectively running down and not being declared non-comp.

But the controller has discretion to increase (not reduce) the standard time, and I guess this is the sort of time when that should be used.