changes to the 2009 fixture list

[SJC]

Looks to me like we're heading for a world where branding becomes all-important. Events with limited courses and few facilities but a good name like the "Kent Orienteering League" will do well, one-off colour-coded events with a full range of courses will appear less attractive.

Perhaps this is where the Event Structure Review went wrong. It concluded that the event Level should be based on the quality of the faciities provided, rather than the type of competitor it was trying to attract and what the event would be used for.

Looking at it from a competition point of view then there are:
1) 'Club' events - aimed at the locals, possibly with an informal club league table for good measure.
2) 'Regional' events - generally aimed at both newcomers and experienced orienteers in one region, with results used to generate a league table such as the East Midlands League.
3) 'National' events - which are of a high enough quality to attract people from many regions and could be used for the Future Champions cup, a veterans equivalent, selection races, etc.
4) Major events - ie the British and JK.

Given a breakdown like this it is hardly surprising that it is proving difficult to fit all the events into just three levels.

[NeilC]

I'm finding the lumping together of everything from one-course training events to full colour-coded's into the same category is making it unnecessarily hard for me to pick out the events I want.

So how do people decide which event to go to (ignoring the obvious factor of distance)?

As a suggestion:

1) Is it a good area/map?
2) Does it offer the sort of course that I'd like to run?
3) Will there be any decent competition for me?
4) Can I get league/championship/ranking etc points/trophies?
5) Will there be toilets / vendors etc?
6) How much will it cost?

There is often little correlation between the above and the level of the event (except perhaps cost). I don't see why having more courses at an event is likely to make the course that I want to run any better. A better job is often done when planning a smaller set of courses than a larger set. A local club league is often more competitive than a regional or national league for many people. Just about every event now has some details about it online meaning that many of the above can be assessed beforehand.

[RJ]

baby and bath water come to mind

even brewery and p**s up

[SeanC]

Rebranding our local league to Kent Orienteering League has certainly helped, but I should point out that the name change co-incided with quite a lot of quality improvements - SI, pre-marked maps, improved leagues, better publicity, schools competition, prizes.

Also I must announce that the remaining DFOK Kent Orienteering League events for this season will have national standard toilets. I can't comment on the SAXONS toilets - they may only be local standard.

Although participation at Kent Orienteering League events has nearly doubled, it's still well off the totals for the one off district events.

Although generally of excellent quality, there is something missing from the district event tier in the South East. I remember a while back someone writing here that orienteering needs to make up it's mind whether it's a pastime or a sport. Well to me the local events feel more like a sport, and the district events feel more like a pastime. At the local events you get to meet fellow orienteers, and generally find out soon after the event whether you've beaten the orienteers who are about your standard. When I've finished the local event, my first thought isn't normally about the course quality , it's whether or not I'm ahead of Jerry Purkis or Andrew Evans.

At a district event the sport seems more remote. There's less chance of people you know well running the same course, and less chance of meeting them after the event, so it feels less like a race, and more like a pastime. Maybe then that's why I'm more bothered if the area is a bit boring or the map isn't perfect, though generally these events are pretty good.

Big regional and national events feel different again. Even though I might not know anyone on the course, the fact that the best orienteers are competing, and the all round seriousness, make the event seem a (big and important) race, definately not a pastime.

I don't know if this helps the debate, or whether I'm just killing time before newsnight comes on.

[frog]

It sounds as though some of you have loads of events to choose from. Our area isn't so lucky. If I thought people would be that fussy about the events they go to and there was loads of choice around I don't think I would bother organising anything. There is a danger of us upping the expected quality of events so much that putting on an event becomes a major undertaking, a bit like starting off with a spag bol type dinner party and ending up with Cordon Bleu (showing my age now!) competitions. People get psyched out and just stay at home and eat.

[IanD]

It sounds as though some of you have loads of events to choose from. Our area isn't so lucky. If I thought people would be that fussy about the events they go to and there was loads of choice around I don't think I would bother organising anything.

Sounds like you are one of those who goes orienteering whenever possible. (And so am I). But we should never forget that much of our "target market" is people for whom there are more important things in life. These people want to be quickly and easily able to identify those days on which there is a nearby of event of the type they like. I think this means that the information should be obvious from the fixture list, not require reading the individual event details.

Those with preferences for Regional events are still well catered for, but those who prefer small local events and those who prefer a full-range of courses at a "less serious" events are going to have trouble. SeanC above eloquently expresses a difference between current Local and District events which has never occurred to me; clearly he has a preference. One of the thrusts of the event structure review was to make it easier for people to understand the nature of the events on offer. Might I respectfully suggest that the changes as currently being implemented are going the other way?

Whether I'm helping the debate, or merely killing time on a rare Saturday morning with no nearby event, I'll leave others to decide.

[EddieH]

Recently the Scottish fixture list has removed the great mass of low key local events, I assume so as to make it easier to read the list without gtting lost in a fog of minor competitions only relevant to locals that know about them from other sources.
To my mind these are obviously level 3 events. Now about 98% of all events are going to be in this category

[IanD]

Recently the Scottish fixture list has removed the great mass of low key local events, I assume so as to make it easier to read the list without getting lost in a fog of minor competitions only relevant to locals that know about them from other sources.

I think that's a shame. When travelling, I often look for an evening or weekend event in whichever area I find myself. Low key events are just fine. I dispute the assertion that they are only relevant to locals.

Scotland is unlikely to affect me as I never travel there on business, but others do. Are passing Sassenachs not welcome at low-key events; if they are, how are they supposed to find them?

[Gross]

Interestingly.... as a Grade 1 controller I have received zero communication from BOF about the impact of this new fixtures grading & how it affects me & other officials.... maybe my post lady likes keeping items with BOF written on them

[DavidJ]

So how do people decide which event to go to (ignoring the obvious factor of distance)?

Missing from your list is the issue of distance from the car park to the start. I know that for many this is not an issue but for those with young children it can be a significant factor. If the walk to the start and back from the finish is longer than the course itself then newcomers will certainly be put off. Similarly, I know that I decided to miss a distant event last year where there was the need to get a coach to the start/finish as this would have, in my view, made the total time involved too great. However, as has been pointed out, identifying a suitable car park may not be possible when initially registering an event.

I feel that the concern about getting sufficient (excessive?) detail onto the main BO Fixtures List is wrong. The focus should be on enabling newcomers identify their local club easily from the BO site and then using club web pages to provide a suitable listing of events as well as the necessary background information.

[SeanC]

David - the focus should be (and may be on the new event website) on getting information on events into the BOF event database. What goes on screen can be as brief as the viewer wants, and not necessarily the full details. The data in the database can be the search criteria. For example show me only events with .... Search criteria could be:

course type
location (postcode) and distance from the postcode
toilets available
controller level
distance to start finish
or anything else relevant.

Assuming the database can be updated by clubs, search criteria could be updated without having to post a form and wait for someone to do something, it would be done automatically.

From a web development viewpoint, this is so not rocket science, but we'll have to see whether the limited BOF budget can pay for building and maintaining such a site.

I think such a web site would raise participation and get more newcomers to our events.

[frog]

Only the typed Scottish fixture list has removed low key local events. This hasn't affected our club as most folk look at the SOA fixtures website.
This will still put up your low key event if you tick full publicity and give it an ER1 form to itself rather than do one of the multi-event forms.
You will still look at the fixtures list and see something is a SoSol so whether it is grade 2 or 3 is irrelelevent to most entrants, and means it's not embargoed for a year with possibly higher levies and controlling etc hassle if it's grade 3.

[Mrs H]

I am very disappointed that the new structure has not included full colour coded and badge events together - that is what I was expecting.

But in the light of yet another excellent NGOC Mini-League event in the Forest of Dean yesterday I've decided that the new structure has made my life a lot simpler.

I shall simply go to those L1 events that appeal to me, all L3 events within easy reach and not bother with L2 events at all unless they are very convenient or close to another member of the family, part of a multiday/holiday event or part of the Nopesport Urban League for which I am prepared to consider travelling

[DM]

Have to agree with Eddie and Ian D, removing local events on the assumption that they will only interest locals and these locals will know about them through other means is surely defeating the idea of making the sport more accessible to more people. We get quite a few people passing though the MDOC area who come along to the spring/summer series who have commented that they would not have known about the event if it hadn't been on the site. I always look for an event in Cornwall when I'm down there working. There must be others who do the same, as Ian D suggests.

At a time when we should be publicising our events to a wider audience, one website that people are quite likely to look on for details removes the info. Newcomers (are they wanted or not?) are more likely to find the BOF site than the local club site, unless they have already been to a local event and the club is making real efforts to stay in touch with these newcomers.

Perhap we have a new category of event, called "The League of Gentlemen", local races for local people.......

[awk]

I am very disappointed that the new structure has not included full colour coded and badge events together - that is what I was expecting.....
I shall simply not bother with L2 events at all unless they are very convenient or close to another member of the family, part of a multiday/holiday event or part of the Nopesport Urban League for which I am prepared to consider travelling

Today, we had the choice of either travelling to Cannock Chase for the Chasers' regional event, or staying local for the Claro district event at Swinsty. In the event we went to the latter, not least because of the cost implications.

The Blue course (which I ran) had 49 competitors, and produced a brilliant competition, where my 45 second mistake on the last control cost me 6 places. A further 5 seconds slower, and I'd have dropped another 2 places. Great stuff! Courses were well planned, and we had all the facilities we could want (even 'proper' toilets rather than portaloos, and hot tea, bacon butties and a cake stall).

I'm sure Brocton was a good event too, but interestingly there were still only 50 people on the course I would have run, divided in the results into 5 different classes. Much as I enjoy Chasers' events and Brocton in particular, it won't have provided a better quality race or experience than I had today. Yet Swinsty would under the new scheme be L3, and Brocton L2. I see no rhyme nor reason for this; instead it was a perfect example supporting the opposite - i.e. both L2s.

But Swinsty couldn't be an L2, 'cos it didn't have a Grade 2 controller, even though everything else satisfies the criteria. What utter nonsense - something that was pretty much agreed by all the Aire and Ebor committee members attending with whom I discussed the issue. So far, I haven't come across a single person who thinks this new scheme (as mashed up by BOF) makes much if any sense.

Thank you Claro for a super competition. It looks as if we'll be doing pretty much the same as you Mrs H.