Pros: It's something you can buy off the shelf
Cons: Expensive, not as much light output as our homebuilds
Me and Ifor have already discussed this at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... p?t=188409
Not raining on our parade at all, as our homebuilds are still brighter. My homebuild is about 600 lumens (could run it at ~900, but would need to carry a bigger battery), Ifor's probably over 1000 (could even be 1500 if he's running all the LEDs at full power). Those P4 LEDs don't actually perform better than the XR-Es we're using - they're probably actually much the same as the old ones I have, but significantly worse than the latest ones Ifor has.
If you want a commercial LED light that performs really well, then there's always the Lupine Wilma X - over twice as bright as that, but then again almost twice the price!
what headtorch?
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Re: what headtorch?
British candle-O champion.
- Adventure Racer
- addict
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:53 pm
- Location: Somewhere near Malvern
Re: what headtorch?
And if money is no object, then you could look at the Lupine BETTY 12
. This gives 1400 lumens from 7 off Seoul P4's and a claimed 6 hours at max brightness from the 13.8AH bottle battery
, but it will set you back about £600
. Plus an additional £40 odd for their head mount.
Cheaper and much more fun to build your own.
![Exclamation :!:](./images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
Cheaper and much more fun to build your own.
-
Wayward-O - light green
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:26 pm
- Location: Going around in circles
Re: what headtorch?
Oi ! Ifor. . . . . cut it out !!!
I thought it was you went past me, going in the other direction at West Woods !
. . . . . . damn near singed my eyebrows off !!
I shall be carrying a heavy duty water pistol from now on. You'll certainly "light up" once I short-circuit you with that !
I thought it was you went past me, going in the other direction at West Woods !
. . . . . . damn near singed my eyebrows off !!
I shall be carrying a heavy duty water pistol from now on. You'll certainly "light up" once I short-circuit you with that !
-
grubby - light green
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm
- Location: Chepstow
Re: what headtorch?
I was not getting 1500 lumens tonight out at cawmcarn an my mouintain bike. I Managed to take the wrong bag and left the big light at home... Then ran the battery flat on my quad cree headtorch having not charged it it during the week and used it for about 2 and a half hours. (It looks like one bad cell, I just ordered some more.) I was stuck at the top of the hill with only a black diamond Ion I don't know how many lumen that is but problbly about 10 at the most with a new battery. it is a good job there is an option of a tarmac road up there...
I don't know what the output of my lights realy is but it would be interesting to find out but it's expensive test equipment.... It realy is probobly 1500 from the 6 Q5 leds when I am overdriving them to 1200ma. (and over 1000 for the 4 R2s on the other light) I know that the other night up at cawmcarn with the 6 on the bars and 4 on my head both on flat out the final decents were fairly fast and thrilling and not somthing I wanted to do with an Ion tonight....
I don't know what the output of my lights realy is but it would be interesting to find out but it's expensive test equipment.... It realy is probobly 1500 from the 6 Q5 leds when I am overdriving them to 1200ma. (and over 1000 for the 4 R2s on the other light) I know that the other night up at cawmcarn with the 6 on the bars and 4 on my head both on flat out the final decents were fairly fast and thrilling and not somthing I wanted to do with an Ion tonight....
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ifor - brown
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:48 pm
- Location: Bristol
Re: what headtorch?
In reply to Adventure Racer:
I do not doubt the awesome output of your homebuilds. It also seems that the latest Q5 LEDs from CREE are now available to satisfy your lumen addiction. I didn't inially realize there were such candela junkies in the midst of this forum. 1000+ lumens! If you have a problem, the new Ultra will be little more than methadone to you. I can only assume Candlepower.com is therapy for your affliction?
In reply to OP:
If you are still in the market to buy a new lamp, then the new offering from Petzl is maybe worth a look. Certain bike lights may be higher powered in overall luminous flux but if, like me, you struggle to spend over 100 notes on a torch, then a lupine wilma X pro at 400 plus is never going to happen. Then again, the Petzl torch will probably be over £200, this for me would be its greatest weakness. The big gain over Silva/Mila lamps for me would have to be the regulated light source, so beam output is generally consistent and not at 80% after 10 mins.
In reply to Wayward-O and Adventure Racer:
The Wilma X Pro has a tighter beam than the Ultra, as you would maybe expect for a lamp designed for higher speed activities, say biking. If you are experimenting with collimators, you will fully appreciate the difference this can make to beam composition and ultimately performance in the chosen activity. The Ultra has been compared favourably with both the Wilma X Pro and the Edison, (used in the woods/night orienteering), the lower luminous flux maybe being compensated by better beam angle and beam colour. I personally have not made (or are able to make) this comparison.
'And if money is no object, then you could look at the Lupine BETTY 12' .... This also weights about 8 kilos.
In reply to Adventure Racer and Ifor:
The lumen output/battery life question around the Ultra baffles me. I too would expect a greater luminous flux for the stated battery duration. I didn't get the chance to fully discharge the Accu 2 battery pack (145g), but got over 2 hours use in full power mode. Maybe they are opting for luminous efficacy rather than cranking up the drive current for better output. Have you experienced any problems with your LEDs by driving them over 1000mA? (loss of output, efficiency or failure)
From comments on another forum, there are questions about build quality. Petzl don't usually suffer in this respect, I don't think they will here. Yes it is constructed from plastic - however the rubberised finish gives it a semblance of quality. In terms of use and ergonomics it is very good.
Have you considered the Oldham or Speleo-technic cap lamps as a retro fit for your homebuilds? See the link below. I have seen Fx lamps second hand in caving shops for under a tenner.
http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/ledlighting.htm
I do not doubt the awesome output of your homebuilds. It also seems that the latest Q5 LEDs from CREE are now available to satisfy your lumen addiction. I didn't inially realize there were such candela junkies in the midst of this forum. 1000+ lumens! If you have a problem, the new Ultra will be little more than methadone to you. I can only assume Candlepower.com is therapy for your affliction?
In reply to OP:
If you are still in the market to buy a new lamp, then the new offering from Petzl is maybe worth a look. Certain bike lights may be higher powered in overall luminous flux but if, like me, you struggle to spend over 100 notes on a torch, then a lupine wilma X pro at 400 plus is never going to happen. Then again, the Petzl torch will probably be over £200, this for me would be its greatest weakness. The big gain over Silva/Mila lamps for me would have to be the regulated light source, so beam output is generally consistent and not at 80% after 10 mins.
In reply to Wayward-O and Adventure Racer:
The Wilma X Pro has a tighter beam than the Ultra, as you would maybe expect for a lamp designed for higher speed activities, say biking. If you are experimenting with collimators, you will fully appreciate the difference this can make to beam composition and ultimately performance in the chosen activity. The Ultra has been compared favourably with both the Wilma X Pro and the Edison, (used in the woods/night orienteering), the lower luminous flux maybe being compensated by better beam angle and beam colour. I personally have not made (or are able to make) this comparison.
'And if money is no object, then you could look at the Lupine BETTY 12' .... This also weights about 8 kilos.
In reply to Adventure Racer and Ifor:
The lumen output/battery life question around the Ultra baffles me. I too would expect a greater luminous flux for the stated battery duration. I didn't get the chance to fully discharge the Accu 2 battery pack (145g), but got over 2 hours use in full power mode. Maybe they are opting for luminous efficacy rather than cranking up the drive current for better output. Have you experienced any problems with your LEDs by driving them over 1000mA? (loss of output, efficiency or failure)
From comments on another forum, there are questions about build quality. Petzl don't usually suffer in this respect, I don't think they will here. Yes it is constructed from plastic - however the rubberised finish gives it a semblance of quality. In terms of use and ergonomics it is very good.
Have you considered the Oldham or Speleo-technic cap lamps as a retro fit for your homebuilds? See the link below. I have seen Fx lamps second hand in caving shops for under a tenner.
http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/ledlighting.htm
- scottA
- string
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:25 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: what headtorch?
I've got several Oldham/FX2or3/Petzl Duo headset casings kicking about. However being a tad heavy, completely enclosed and made of some sort of plastic or Bakelite, I suspect they may get a bit hot.
Shout if you're interested.
Shout if you're interested.
-
grubby - light green
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm
- Location: Chepstow
Re: what headtorch?
scottA wrote:I didn't inially realize there were such candela junkies in the midst of this forum.
I think it was just me originally, but I now seem to have dragged Ifor down with me.
Thanks for the info on those casings, grubby - saves me searching to see what they're like, having been a bit worried I'd missed a trick. As you suggest, the plastic casing would make them a poor choice, since it would be hard to cool the LEDs properly (given that's one of the most important and difficult parts of making a good LED headtorch). What might be useful though would be a decent strap system from a cheap donor light, as that's something I've really struggled with.
British candle-O champion.
- Adventure Racer
- addict
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:53 pm
- Location: Somewhere near Malvern
Re: what headtorch?
I'll have rummage around. . . .
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grubby - light green
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm
- Location: Chepstow
Re: what headtorch?
Right. . . I've had a look around.
I've come up with this old plastic rigid set-up. I riveted in a vertical brace, to stop the visor-like headlamp support from continually dropping downwards. Sure this could be useful. Can't have have the reflector though. I was 25% quicker when I used this. . . . honest.
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/OldHeadset1.jpg)
My latest secret weapon is this water powered light below ! Water and a . . . er. . . couple of calcium carbide rocks is all it needs. Keeps you warm too ! The expedition version is positively frightening. You could actually cook with it.
Anyway, moving on. . . . . . . There's also a few pics of some headset bits I've got kicking about. Free to anyone that wants them. Except the Acetylene one, sorry !
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Acetylene1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Duo1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Tube1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Bike1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Oldham1.jpg)
I've come up with this old plastic rigid set-up. I riveted in a vertical brace, to stop the visor-like headlamp support from continually dropping downwards. Sure this could be useful. Can't have have the reflector though. I was 25% quicker when I used this. . . . honest.
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/OldHeadset1.jpg)
My latest secret weapon is this water powered light below ! Water and a . . . er. . . couple of calcium carbide rocks is all it needs. Keeps you warm too ! The expedition version is positively frightening. You could actually cook with it.
Anyway, moving on. . . . . . . There's also a few pics of some headset bits I've got kicking about. Free to anyone that wants them. Except the Acetylene one, sorry !
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Acetylene1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Duo1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Tube1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Bike1.jpg)
![Image](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/Verygrubby/Oldham1.jpg)
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grubby - light green
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:19 pm
- Location: Chepstow
Re: what headtorch?
Adventure Racer wrote:scottA wrote:I didn't inially realize there were such candela junkies in the midst of this forum.
I think it was just me originally, but I now seem to have dragged Ifor down with me.
I am trying to go cold turkey on the building front . I re-worked my double at the weekend to integrate the driver and make it mount on my petzl headband as well as the bike. I have a 2 4 or 6 led options avalible for bike or run now. I finished off by tidying up my kitchen table and putting all the build kit away. I don't have to eat in the living room any more and the lodger can do his Iorning again....
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ifor - brown
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:48 pm
- Location: Bristol
Re: what headtorch?
The Petzl Ultra appears to be available now - I've found it on line here:
http://www.ryedalerambler.com/product/2 ... Ultra_Belt
And you can read more about it here:
http://en.petzl.com/ultra/petzl-ultra.html
But at £300 RRP for 350 lumens, it definitely appears to be too little for too much.
http://www.ryedalerambler.com/product/2 ... Ultra_Belt
And you can read more about it here:
http://en.petzl.com/ultra/petzl-ultra.html
But at £300 RRP for 350 lumens, it definitely appears to be too little for too much.
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Wayward-O - light green
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:26 pm
- Location: Going around in circles
Re: what headtorch?
Time to resurrect this thread again.
Getting a bit fed up with my Mila halogen. Power is fine but reliability is poor. I find that after about 10-15 night events (plus occasional training runs and camping) one of the lights goes disco, working only occasionally without a tap on the headtorch, eventually it fails (or more specifically the housing it is in fails). The other one then fails several events later. This has happened twice now and at £80 for a replacement headset this isn't funny. Down in Kent with 26 night events a year others report similar problems with Silva halogens. One club member, who is also an electrical engineer tells me that basically the headtorch isn't robust enough, too many connections that work loose easily and wobbly bits, also damage caused by the heat from the bulb... It doesn't help that I tend to fall over a lot and run into trees with my headtorch.
Anyway, can anyone give reliability feedback on the new more powerful headtorches, Silva Alpha and Pletzl Ultra? If they are more reliable and can last several years with heavy use it would work out cheaper than replacing my Mila headset every year.
Getting a bit fed up with my Mila halogen. Power is fine but reliability is poor. I find that after about 10-15 night events (plus occasional training runs and camping) one of the lights goes disco, working only occasionally without a tap on the headtorch, eventually it fails (or more specifically the housing it is in fails). The other one then fails several events later. This has happened twice now and at £80 for a replacement headset this isn't funny. Down in Kent with 26 night events a year others report similar problems with Silva halogens. One club member, who is also an electrical engineer tells me that basically the headtorch isn't robust enough, too many connections that work loose easily and wobbly bits, also damage caused by the heat from the bulb... It doesn't help that I tend to fall over a lot and run into trees with my headtorch.
Anyway, can anyone give reliability feedback on the new more powerful headtorches, Silva Alpha and Pletzl Ultra? If they are more reliable and can last several years with heavy use it would work out cheaper than replacing my Mila headset every year.
- SeanC
- god
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:46 pm
- Location: Kent
Re: what headtorch?
Stop press... as reviewed (very favourably) in the next issue of CompassSport...
http://www.brightbikelights.com
£90 for a clone of the Tesla Lupine (£84 + £6 for the head strap). Smart charger and 3hrs run time on full power, which is claimed at 900 lumens. Seriously tempting! The cheapest I can see a Lupine selling for anywhere on the web is £199 (but out of stock at that price, unsurprisingly). Hopefully good LED torches having finally started to become affordable.
http://www.brightbikelights.com
£90 for a clone of the Tesla Lupine (£84 + £6 for the head strap). Smart charger and 3hrs run time on full power, which is claimed at 900 lumens. Seriously tempting! The cheapest I can see a Lupine selling for anywhere on the web is £199 (but out of stock at that price, unsurprisingly). Hopefully good LED torches having finally started to become affordable.
- BradC
- string
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:20 pm
- Location: Dunblane
Re: what headtorch?
I bought the £90 jobby from http://www.brightbikelights.com and am very impressed with it. It is much better built than my homebrew and seems to produce the lumens. My own attempts have been around 3x XP-E Cree from Cutter.au and worked really nicely but always had thermal issues; this light seems to work well.
Recommended.
PS
Haven't tested runtime yet.
Recommended.
PS
Haven't tested runtime yet.
- FromTheGrassyKnoll
- white
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:34 pm
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