White/Yellow starts

[DB]

I'm planning my first event in July and was enquiring about the starts for White and Yellow. CompassSport and the BOF planning link on the site suggests the start kite shouldn't be on a path junction, but two very experienced planners M60 & W70 I know, have individually scoffed at this saying it wasn't necessary to avoid this. I can see the sense in starting them on a route where from the start there is only one possible way forward, but have been confused by the recent comments of these experts.
I dont want to tread on their toes when their assistance is invaluble but would be grateful for clarification as to whether its necessary not to start the juniors on a decision point.

[MIE]

The White course should have NO decision points and that is what a path junction is.
By placing the start 10/20 metres along the path you want the competitors to take
and describing the site as Path you will "solve" the problem. This will also resolve the
problem on the Yellow. As far as the more technical courses are concerned it won't be
a problem.

The golden rule on the White course is "If you think it might be too hard then it probably is"

MIE

[NeilC]

Decision points are of course allowed on a white course but there should be a control there. One could argue that the start is such a control, except that it is a special case since competitors have not navigated to it and are much more likely to be disorientated when they arrive there. It is therefore a very strong recommendation that the start for TD1 and TD2 courses in particular is not based at a junction.

Of course every planner has their own opinion, a very common one is "let's make the yellow course a bit more interesting by using that pit or sticking the control behind that bush". Similarly others question why these competitors should see their maps before the start. Just making the orienteering experience a little less intimidating for the youngsters before they are on their course proper can only encourage them to want to come back and try again.

[graeme]

Having trailed around a lot white courses lately ... it depends. But its really important to get off to a successful start.

The six-day has a superb definition of what's OK on a white course :
"An experienced orienteer should be able to get round without a map or compass". When I control, this is what I try to do, if I can't,
I get the planner to move the flags.
The "no decisions" definition is too woolly: is "Not turning off a major path" a decision? "Not turning left"?

So, for example, a path junction might be OK if you're continuing along the main path from the start direction. A complete no-no (which I've had) would be a pre start in the woods taped at right angles to a start on a major path, at which point you turn left - or is it right? - its impossible to work out which without a compass to orient the map. In practice, if you site the kites to one side of the junction on the correct path leaving the junction, it works out fine (note that then the control may be on the wrong side for yellow courses - I reckon that's OK since there is a white course as well).

Another possibility is to have a sign at the start saying "White course this way", or smiley white faces along the right route and frowny ones the wrong way.

If the start kite is for white only, there would of course be no problem - just avoid junctions - but in the real world we use the same start kite which everyone (is meant to) go to, and compromises are occasionally necessary.

[SJC]

Going back to the original question.

Stick to the recommendation that the start kite shouldn't be on a path junction and you can't get it wrong.

Or is that advice just too simple to follow ?

[NeilC]

Stick to the recommendation that the start kite shouldn't be on a path junction and you can't get it wrong.

Unless you stick it in the forest and tape to a path!

It's this sort of advice that used to get disseminated at National and regional technical conferences and in controller newsletters. I get the feeling that these don't happen so often nowadays (and I'm guilty on that front). Some excellent articles and comments have appeared in Focus and CompassSport but soon get forgotten it seems. Having these duplicated on the BOF website might help and I know that efforts are being made for this to happen.

[DJM]

DB - it's not just the BOF Planning link which advises re White/Yellow Starts, it's also enshrined in the Appendices to the Rules too. You might like to point your scoffing Planners to Appendix B (Course Planning) 3.4.1 (The Start):-

... For TD1 and 2 courses this feature will need to be a path or similar feature; also it should not be at a junction, as this would require beginners to decide which way to go without knowing where they have just come from.

Couldn't be clearer!

[graeme]

Couldn't be clearer!

Paths heading away from start in four directions => decision needed
Path heading away from start in two directions => no decision needed




i.e. You can only start on a path if it is obvious which way to set off along it: if the prestart is on the path,
white competitors implicitly know to continue past the start. If the prestart is to one side, then the only
way you can figure out whether to turn left or right is to use a compass, which white competitors shouldn't have to do.

It has happened before, please dont just parrot rulebooks: learn and do it right.

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

You can't beat Barry Elkington's articles which are available on the British Orienteering web site in the Downloads > Event section and to quote:

For the White (and Yellow) courses this feature will need to be a path or track. Furthermore, it should not be at a junction, as this would require the competitor to decide which way to go without knowing where they have just come from. This is not easy, and to immediately cause a child to have to make a decision in full view of everyone is not the way to encourage
them to get off to a good start.

[DM]

If you want an example of how to confuse white/yellow/orange runners at a start kite, take a look at routegadget for the recent NOC Budby event. Start kite was on a junction with several path options (at least 3 from memory). Take a look at the 1st leg splits for all 3 courses and you'll see quite a few making big errors on leg 1. It completely spoils the run from the very start. A few experiences like this and the kids will get fed up - not what we want.

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

Yes - it was a complex junction which was why there was an experienced start team including 2 fairly senior coaches who made sure that everyone was primed to check out where the juniors were heading. The JM/W 1 and 2 (White and yellow) courses went straight ahead and their first control was visible along the path (not sure whether that was the first on the yellow ). The juniors on the EOD white and yellow courses had their maps 2 minutes before and parents helped them out. Of course in the midst of all the numbers there we may have missed watching out for someone. We also had a helper in the vicinity of the Major Oak where masses of tourists and a mobile tea bar were expected to add to any confusion for the youngest competitors - we tried to cover all the angles.

[DM]

Yes - it was a complex junction which was why there was an experienced start team including 2 fairly senior coaches who made sure that everyone was primed to check out where the juniors were heading. The JM/W 1 and 2 (White and yellow) courses went straight ahead and their first control was visible along the path (not sure whether that was the first on the yellow ). The juniors on the EOD white and yellow courses had their maps 2 minutes before and parents helped them out. Of course in the midst of all the numbers there we may have missed watching out for someone. We also had a helper in the vicinity of the Major Oak where masses of tourists and a mobile tea bar were expected to add to any confusion for the youngest competitors - we tried to cover all the angles.

So why was the start not pulled 100m back down the track away from the junction? Then you would have a start kite on a straight path line. It wasn't just white and yellow who struggled, as I said, look at the orange first leg splits aswell, several long and uncharateristic ones there.

[RS]

DB, you have been unfortunate with your allocated 'advisors' Please don't let this put you off future planning and listen to the advice on Nope eg recommending Barry Elkington's advice and you won't go wrong! People with recent experience of their children on white/yellow courses are the experts

[graeme]

And for a counter example, look at SOSOL at Elibank.

http://www.elo.routegadget.co.uk/cgi-bin/reitti.cgi

With the start on a path/ride junction.

Recognising that what is important is how it looks on the ground, not what some guideline says,
the start kite was carefully positioned on the side of the correct path for white/yellow to set off.
Nobody had a problem, no army of experienced coaches was needed, and the start was just where
it was needed for the other courses.

(but you can't tell any of that from looking at routegadget)

[EddieH]

It's nice to see a legacy from my time as Technical coordinator of the 6-days. I coined the words. "An experienced orienteer should be able to get round without a map". The rules and guidelines point towards that, but if every control clearly leads to the next you have a TD1 course with no decision points whatsoever.

Two problems tend to occur - one is that the planner wants to make it "more interesting" and the other is lack of consideration of the start.

To me white is usually the easiest course to plan - it needs to be controlled on the ground just as much as on the map, with every control placement absolutely checked.