The oddity of the outcome of the scoring system really highlights that although the individual races have been much appreciated, very few competitors seem prepared to travel long distances to these events.
This may change next year, if the suggestion of associating a city race with another major event takes place.
i enjoyed Warwick, but not enough to travel to another geographically distant stand alone town event. I often go to York, because it is close to home; I loved Zermatt - but it was one race in a series of 6; I loved the original Lincoln - but only entered because the course I did was the final part of the Long O.
Of course it can be seen as a positive that we are not all dashing hither and thither extending our carbon footprint.
Having a series seems to have helped develop the concept of the town/city race, which is great. I am all for as much variety as possible. I simply wonder whether the future of these events should be as stand alone races, rather than part of a series.
Warwick today
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Re: Warwick today
there are plenty of towns out there perfectly suited to this kind of event.
Ludlow SINS 2009 ?
Ludlow SINS 2009 ?
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Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
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ryeland of doom - blue
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Re: Warwick today
andy wrote:Yes I'd noticed this, it's quite funny - two of my friends who competed in their first ever orienteering event (!) in glasgow (which had one of the lowest turnouts) are lying very high up the table, higher than some of the best orienteers in the country! That was the only event of the series they had attended.
But that was because at least 10 men/boys who ran the same course quicker had entered their respective age categories rather than "Open", and therefore weren't eligible for points (The web entry details made it clear this would happen - but I think in future it would make sense if the points went to the fastest runners round the top course)
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greywolf - addict
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Re: Warwick today
there are plenty of towns out there perfectly suited to this kind of event.
Ludlow SINS 2009 ?
That is a distinct possibility. The format of SinS would need to be looked at to fit it in.
Ludlow SINS 2009 ?
That is a distinct possibility. The format of SinS would need to be looked at to fit it in.
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Re: Warwick today
Firstly thanks to Iain and John for the planning and control siting and to OD for the whole event. My first proper street event and I really enjoyed it. For me the length was right the climb was right and I enjoyed the challenge of continual planning and map contact. Evenso I agree with seabird that I would be unlikely to travel just for street O, I'm finding that the case with normal O I'm happy to travel for 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours but it's got to be something really special to tempt me further. Fortunately Oxford is within that timescale so I might try again there.
Re Ryland of Doom's suggestion the wheels might already be turning in that direction. There are lots of suitable towns/cities but the requirements go far further, permissions, support form local authorities, maps , planners and organisers plus a lot of time.
Re Ryland of Doom's suggestion the wheels might already be turning in that direction. There are lots of suitable towns/cities but the requirements go far further, permissions, support form local authorities, maps , planners and organisers plus a lot of time.
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
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HOCOLITE - addict
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Re: Warwick today
I realy enjoyed the event and was caught out by a few controls. Like a few other people I climed the tower only to see the control below me when I looked over the wall. What confused me and tempted me to go up was the light infill on the map for this part of the castle wall which suggested you could pass through. Close examination shows two shades in this area and I wonder if there was a defect in the printing.
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Re: Warwick today
Very ungenerously amongst the list of street O which I have enjoyed, I failed to include the excellent but under publicised Claro Knaresborough race, which has been run twice, the first pre-dating both of the more famous Lincoln and Oxford races.
It has been part of a series in these parts including the York race and Park races from other clubs. Perhaps these more localised series should be they way forward.
It has been part of a series in these parts including the York race and Park races from other clubs. Perhaps these more localised series should be they way forward.
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Re: Warwick today
On the other hand, we've now so enjoyed the recent blooming of street races that we would (and do!) travel to events in their own right (even having to choose between Oxford and Venice!).seabird wrote:i enjoyed Warwick, but not enough to travel to another geographically distant stand alone town event.
To some extent they already pretty much are: looking at the results, I don't think that many orienteers go to them because they are part of a series where only 10 people can score. What the series does though is enable the profile of this type of orienteering to be raised, and that will surely have encouraged more people to give it a go. It will also encourage people to put on events, as it does provide a very useful publicity vehicle. Nationally orientated events can also help raise standards: the quality of maps and courses at events like Oxford, Scarborough, Lincoln, Warwick etc. have really helped take street racing a long way on from some of those that, for instance, have appeared in Neil Cameron's article in Focus.I simply wonder whether the future of these events should be as stand alone races, rather than part of a series.
Perhaps these more localised series should be they way forward.
Yes, definitely, but a 'national' series as well.
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awk - god
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Re: Warwick today
easternmost? wrote: Close examination shows two shades in this area and I wonder if there was a defect in the printing.
No defect: dark grey is the standard in the sprint spec for a building, light grey for a covered way. The other indicator that the control was outside the castle was the control description: the symbol in column G showed the control on an inside corner that opened eastwards. The only corner in the circle that did that was where the control was. One of the most useful bits of advice I've had in recent times was when Jenny Johnson told me, a novice sprint/street orienteer, that you had to know the description in sprint racing right from the start of the leg, whilst the code could be checked as you leave. I'd just made a similar mistake in the York race a couple of years ago.
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awk - god
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Re: Warwick today
[quote="awk the quality of maps and courses at events like Oxford, Scarborough, Lincoln, Warwick etc. have really helped take street racing a long way on from some of those that, for instance, have appeared in Neil Cameron's article in Focus. [/quote]
Absolutely! I'm still looking at my map 4 days later and seeing better routes than I found on the day. How often does that happen in "traditional" orienteering? Only in the better areas with good planners I suspect. I still hear detracting voices along the lines of; "but it's technically easy, you're only running round paths" and "it's only for fast runners because you don't have to navigate" I defy anyone to say that Warwick, or any others in this series, have been technically easy or just for runners. I generally find that I do better relative to others in technical forests, and as I refine my City Race technique the same is starting to happen at them. The trouble is that as the maps and planning improve exponentially, so does the need to improve technique
I worry that the majority of orienteers still don't really know what a good City Race entails, but I think the message is starting to get across.
Absolutely! I'm still looking at my map 4 days later and seeing better routes than I found on the day. How often does that happen in "traditional" orienteering? Only in the better areas with good planners I suspect. I still hear detracting voices along the lines of; "but it's technically easy, you're only running round paths" and "it's only for fast runners because you don't have to navigate" I defy anyone to say that Warwick, or any others in this series, have been technically easy or just for runners. I generally find that I do better relative to others in technical forests, and as I refine my City Race technique the same is starting to happen at them. The trouble is that as the maps and planning improve exponentially, so does the need to improve technique
I worry that the majority of orienteers still don't really know what a good City Race entails, but I think the message is starting to get across.
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johnloguk - green
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Re: Warwick today
Re comments of map of castle walls by 120
"No defect: dark grey is the standard in the sprint spec for a building, light grey for a covered way."
Having drawn a map to this standard (Tamworth) I'm clear of the differenec between light and dark infill in buildings. I also know that the control description was corect and, If I had read it, I would have found the control. However I still think there is somethin Odd with the map. As you proceed clockwise arround the wall from the entrance by the central butterfly control the shade changes from pink to grey to dark grey. This gives the impression that there was something different about this first section off wall. It was this that tempted me into the building as the map suggested I could pass through. In my opinion it should all have been dark grey except where the "drawbridges" were.
"No defect: dark grey is the standard in the sprint spec for a building, light grey for a covered way."
Having drawn a map to this standard (Tamworth) I'm clear of the differenec between light and dark infill in buildings. I also know that the control description was corect and, If I had read it, I would have found the control. However I still think there is somethin Odd with the map. As you proceed clockwise arround the wall from the entrance by the central butterfly control the shade changes from pink to grey to dark grey. This gives the impression that there was something different about this first section off wall. It was this that tempted me into the building as the map suggested I could pass through. In my opinion it should all have been dark grey except where the "drawbridges" were.
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Re: Warwick today
and if folk who weren't there haven't already seen it (linked from the news story) the map can be seen here:
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brooner - [nope] cartel
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Re: Warwick today
Looking at that map section.... the centre of control 25 is on the outside of the wall. No reason nowadays for circles to be off centre... so simply looking at the map will tell you it's outside:)
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Gross - god
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Re: Warwick today
Looking now at my map through a magnifying glass, the top of the wall does change from a beige colour to grey. But the beige is Brown 15% Paved Area i.e. open to the sky, whereas the top of the larger turret is Black 20% Canopy i.e. enclosed but passable so seems correct to me.
There does however seem to be no legal way to get onto that section of wall. Having said that - and not having access at the moment to the correct specs - should an enclosed area with no access be mapped as a paved area as it implies there is access?
There does however seem to be no legal way to get onto that section of wall. Having said that - and not having access at the moment to the correct specs - should an enclosed area with no access be mapped as a paved area as it implies there is access?
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Re: Warwick today
Having been up and down them a couple of times, i'd say the tower and rampart were mapped correctly as you could pass through it ... the fact that you had to climb and descend spiral staircases and squeeze past tourists to do so just made it tougher than it looked. But if it had been dark grey, then i know i'd not have lost 5 1/2 mins there as it'd have been more obvious the control had to be outside the castle. That wasn't a fault of the map - can't speak for the others who lost time, but i just didn't correctly understand the control description. You live and learn ...
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