Event structure review

[Mrs H]

I've just been looking at the Event Structure Review documents on the BOF website - and - as they are largely in line with suggestions i made in CompassSport earlier in the year - i'm bound to say I like it

Basically it's about dropping the present 5 tier structure to 3 - the new ones being local events, standard events (old colour coded and badge events) and regional championships (to be used for selection, FCC etc). I'm not quite c lear where the BOC and JK fit into things and there are a number of other items which i would take issue with.

Mainly the suggested replacement colour coded sysem looks incredibly complicated full of light, long and short reds and greens (no mention of my lovely turquise course ) and the age class combination list for the championship events is incomplete (cant see W45S/50S/18S).

The review panel have had the good sense to back off any intervention with how clubs choose to run their local events

anyway - what do the rest of you think?

[Oldman]

Sorry, Mrs H, I was posting my thread at the same time as you, not trying to start a 2nd one!

[Mrs H]

Ha ha ha - i thought i was seeing double let the debate commence

[NeilC]

Minor comment but I note that the required level of controller (Level 2) is suggested for the National Level of events but not for the standard level event. Was that an oversight in the writing of the draft guideline (Graeme?) or an indication that a concensus could not be reached?

The proposed merger of Level 3 and 4 events could trigger changes to the controller qualifications.

[redkite]

A quick look through the documents and I thought they looked sensible and well contructed. It has attempted to recognise the changing face and needs of the sport.

When and where to hold the BOC is a debate that will continue. I fear it will be particularly relevant after BOC 2008 in the north of Scotland.

It will be interesting to see if the changes do manage to breath new life into the ranking system.

Overall, a good effort that will undoubtedly need to be tweaked a bit here and there following the consultation process.

[awk]

I'm not quite c lear where the BOC and JK fit into things

Basically they are National events too.

the suggested replacement colour coded sysem looks incredibly complicated full of light, long and short reds and greens

Yes, initially it does, but in fact all it means is that there are Light versions of Red, Green and Blue (i.e. at TD4), and that when numbers demand more courses, one can add a Short Red and Short Green. It would be unlikely for all except the very largest events to have all these, and even then I don't see the full range of Light courses being offered (none on most English areas, as they don't reach TD5).

and the age class combination list for the championship events is incomplete (cant see W45S/50S/18S).

Oops. I should certainly have spotted that
[/quote]

[Mrs H]

Fair enough but ...

Light versions of Red, Green and Blue (i.e. at TD4),

I thought a red was only TD3 anyway so what's a light red? (pink )

I understood there was already a progression for TD3 courses - orange, red and purple.

Just invent a progression for TD4

and extend the range of the full TD courses (I hesitate to call them TD5 because of the lack of suitable terrain) with a shorter than green (turquoise) and a longer than brown (Black) I mean what can be the difference between a long green and a short blue etc?

The point the document makes about not dumbing down the TD4 courses in easier terrain is well made.

[RJ]

Mmmmmm..... Not sure about all this. When does a six course colour coded event, the sort of thing we do at the moment, change into a thirteen course affair. What criteria are being used/nominated to determine the number of courses that should be offered.

What has been a very successful system, the six course colour coded event, is now under scrutiny. The point was made that we don't want to change the workload on the organising clubs. But how does that sit with the need (??) to produce more courses.

Then when the 'all encompasing' thirteen colour structured event appears we seem to have a badge/class structure being nominated for the various colours. One of the real strengths of the regional event is that you can compete in your age class. OK, there aren't many competitors in many classes, but that is the result of the demography; and that is the problem we need to fix!

[Marco Polo]

Fair enough but ...

Light versions of Red, Green and Blue (i.e. at TD4),

I thought a red was only TD3 anyway so what's a light red? (pink )

I understood there was already a progression for TD3 courses - orange, red and purple.

From what I am reading the definition of a red course has been changed (The other colours look to be the same more or less).
so now RED is TD4 - a short light Green in current parlance. Orange is the longest TD3 course.

Current Red and (old) purple were never popular? So is there a place for them in the new scheme or should they go?

(But RED is used in it's current definition in the Nat events standards)

Correction/EDIT: In case it confuses RED is TD5 and light Red TD4- but in any case it has changed from current definition.

[Marco Polo]

The requirement that an area for a standard event should not normally have been used in the last 11 months is worth a thought. I can think of a few C4 events using an area less than 11 months after a C5.

This is clearly not mandatory as drafted, but the sort of rule that could be abused.

[Tatty]

Down here in the south we often have problems at CC events due to high demand, sometimes meaning a long wait to start. Many "Golden Oldies " find Blue too long and Green too short so would welcome a techincal course of an in between length. This would reduce the numbers on the other courses and ease pressure on Start times Mustn't hang around too long in the cold at our age ! Not too sure about the other "light" versions.

[graeme]

Mmmmmm..... Not sure about all this. When does a six course colour coded event, ... change into a thirteen course affair.

It doesn't. You can offer whatever courses you like, all we're suggesting is that similar courses have similar
names, and that there are names for most of the courses which are offered nowadays.

I doubt people will offer both the TD4 lite and TD5 versions at many events, but its a handy way of indicating whether people can expect a jolly jog round Wimbledon Common or a technical scramble in the Trossachs. These are rather different things.

So, we propose that a six course colour coded event will turn into a six course colour coded event.

And yes, the meaning of Red has changed. This is the course most sought after in TD5 colour coded (Clubs with only TD4 areas are unaware of this as light green fills the role) and we felt it needed a "proper" colour. We sometimes offer it as "Tartan" in Scotland, but the review group seemed to think that parochial . I think there's probably a need for a long TD3 course too.

[RJ]

Yes Graeme..... but the question still remains.... when does a six course colour coded event change into a thirteen course structure. Obviously some club(s) is/are going to put some of these events on, and this will lead to pressure on the standard six course event to be upgraded. This obviously increases the burden on the organising teams.

So where are the restraints to stop these events becoming as complicated as 'badge' events, with the consequence that a light red course will subsequently attract one competitor. One of the reasons the six colour coded course structure is popular is because the courses have real competition, with high numbers on them. Stretching your entry over thirteen courses will lessen that competition.

I am still quite unclear in the basic premise that there is something fundamentally wrong with 'badge' events as a system of competition. It is weakened because of numbers participating, because there just aren't the orienteers around to attend them. That is the problem in my view. We need to address membership, not necessarily the event structure.

[distracted]

The change sounds good - by altering the structure, the events are far more welcoming from a newcomers point of view whilst retaining (and probably improving) the competition amongst the established orienteers. How many colour courses should an event have? - however many it wants to put on. It make take a couple of events under the new system for a club to see exactly what works for that club, how many competitors they are getting, whether they need to provide 2 green or blue courses for example. It should also result in clubs using those higher quality areas more regularly that have before, too often, been "held back" for the badge/regional event in X years time. I hope that we will also see more clubs willing to organise sprint and middle events and that they will gain wider acceptance within the sport.

RJ > the problem, as has been stated, is that the boundaries between different event types has been blurred. People are realising that badge events aren't the be-all and end-all, they can go to their local colour-coded event and get all the mod-cons present at a badge at a lower price and with better competition. Why then travel 50+ miles to a badge on a not-so-great area? The membership issue is true to an extent, but the badge event isn't helping to bring newcomers into the sport - I am of the opinion that this proposed structure will help to change that.

[slang]

I am still quite unclear in the basic premise that there is something fundamentally wrong with 'badge' events as a system of competition. It is weakened because of numbers participating, because there just aren't the orienteers around to attend them. That is the problem in my view. We need to address membership, not necessarily the event structure.

Couldn't the lack of similiar level of competition be one reason for competitors leaving (or not starting) orienteering? I have been asking myself why am I bothering with M35L. Same applies to novice M21s and W21s, who do they compete with?