RouteGadget at SOL 3, Glen Truim

[Paul Frost]

There was a problem with the server running out of disk space and some routes posted early today (Monday) may not have saved properly.
If you added your route can you check that it is there and re-do it if not.
I think only 6 people were affected.

http://www.gramp.routegadget.co.uk/cgi-bin/reitti.cgi

I have now increase the storage space and bandwidth to cope with the massive increase in use of RouteGadget UK. I apologise to those affected.

[EddieH]

Whilst you are on the subject of Routegadget with Glen Truim, GRAMP have put it up by class rather than by course. Presumably almost everyone would prefer to be able to look at any runners on their course. Can courses be collated once an event has been in operation?

[andy]

Whilst you are on the subject of Routegadget with Glen Truim, GRAMP have put it up by class rather than by course. Presumably almost everyone would prefer to be able to look at any runners on their course. Can courses be collated once an event has been in operation?

i made the same mistake with the ESOC SOL.

there is a way but it's a bit convoluted. There's an option at the bottom of the list of classes (when viewing routes) whereby you can select any other runner who has entered their route already. so you can compare that way. it's not the best but it works!

i don't really have time to check this at the moment so the finer details may be wrong, but what can't be done now (without starting from scratch again and losing routes) is putting up RG with it ordered by course rather than class.

[Paul Frost]

It depends on the results software.

In OE2003 you can chose to produce a results file by course or class and then use that in RG. During the upload of the data you can then specify which way you want it.

I have never used Emit software so don't know if the options exist. But I suspect not, as the question of course or class doesn't get asked during the upload process.

[mharky]

Dave Godfree, #19, route choice legend. I saw that, but just didn't have the balls to go it alone...

[Nails]

yep nice. though mark you'll have to dsq yourself as you went through an uncrossable marsh

[EddieH]

It's not a sprint race, Nails.

[Nails]

Ah but it is drawn with the same black bounding line as a lake (which is uncrossable) and called an 'uncrossable' marsh under ISOM2000.

This is confusing and my understanding is that:

A 'high' fence/wall is considered ok to cross.
A 'uncrossable' lake/marsh/pipeline is considered as no-go -though i can find no rules to this effect.

[Ed]

I reckon you're wrong, Nails: ISOM 2000 states

A black line around a water feature indicates that it cannot be crossed under normal weather conditions.

(my italics)

cannot = physically impossible / hard

if it was forbidden then it would read "shall not" (as used in ISSOM 2007 §2.3) and the bit about "under normal weather conditions" wouldn't be necessary.

stick to the sprint maps

[Nails]

I'm still not sure I agree? Why would a marsh be considered 'Uncrossable' if it can be crossed? I appreciate we are talking about speed through the terrain here, but my experience of uncrossable marshes is.....swimming/drowning.

Also ISOM2000 quotes:

304 Uncrossable river
An uncrossable river or canal is drawn with black bank lines. The bank lines are broken at a ford.

So the river in question is uncrossable and therefore the only place you can cross it is at a bridge or the ford where the bank lines are broken.

I don't think your argument is particularly strong ed -but then neither is mine!

[redkite]

The words are quite clear

ISOM 2000 §4.3 wrote:
A black line around a water feature indicates that it cannot be crossed under normal weather conditions.

The black line is simply a warning, 'try crossing at your own risk' etc. If the marsh has dried out you can cross it'.

[Ed]

Nails, you've obviously not spent enough of your life reading standards documents (either that or I've spent too much of mine doing that!). I think even the BOF rules defines the terms at the start of the document, and can/cannot basically has no real meaning.

Fairly standardised terms:
Must = absolutely required to do something (a legal requirement, usually)
Shall = required to do something to comply with the document (i.e. to comply with the rules in this case)
Should = it is recommended to do this, but not doing so does not mean automatic non-compliance
May, Can, etc. = you can do this if you want to, but it's not necessarily recommended and there's certainly no requirement to do it

E.g.:

Competitors must not cause GBH to planners who get controls in the wrong place.
Competitors shall not cross "uncrossable" features on ISSOM 2007 maps.
Organisers should publish estimated winning times for all classes.
Competitors may cross "uncrossable" marshes, crags, etc. on ISOM 2000 maps, although in certain conditions they cannot (or at least, not if they want to carry on running/living having done so).

[PeteL]

I have raised the question directly with the guy who did the results about RG for Courses rather than Classes but suspect the answer already given is correct. Sorry, we'll try and fix this next time around.

As for the 'Uncrossable Marsh' being crossable - maybe it's a result of global warming since the map was first drawn or just down to the abnormally dry and warm April we enjoyed up here?

[Nails]

ok yep fair enough.

So what about a narrow channel in a lake? Ed you'd have a fair argument if it was say 1.5m deep and you could wade whereas someone of a lesser length would have to swim. Where do you draw the line -oh right the black boundary line....?

[rosco]

You need to do this quiz:

http://www.fortnet.org/icd/mst/index.html