We have lots of issues as a sport, and stuff needs doing about it.
(1) Keep the people we've got
(2) Get more
It is that simple
Go forth and prosper my children
Future of Orienteering
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
The biggest problem is the number of juniors orienteering. Since the Junior Inter Regional started 15 years the number of juniors at the JK/British has halved. I believe it used to be the case that you had to have a gold badge to get in the Yorkshire Junior Squad because there were so many good juniors. The junior squads now deal with a much wider range of ability which is harder work for the coaches and provides less competitive spirit for the juniors.
The Lagganlia tour was a very positive step forward compared to the previous Scandinavian trip that only 4 junior per year went on. Regional nomination, while not perfect if some regions have a lot of talented juniors, is better than adding the pressure of selection races to 14 year olds - I think the start squad starts too young.
So what's gone wrong in the last 15 years?
Back then orienteering was being billed as a family sport. There were lots of teenagers and their parents, including last years WOC relay bronze medallists. Now the parents are still orienteering (the massive buldge in the 50 & 55 classes) and some of us teenagers have grown up
and still orienteer.
The focus now seems to be on schools but without transport the kids can't get to events, and most teachers have too much paperwork these days to give up a whole day at the weekend. (My family started orienteering after being introduced by neighbours whose son had been introduced at school so the school route is a good one.) Get the parents involved and you increase the number of 40 years olds that is tailing off as well.
Why did we all stick with orienteering? Me, at 11 it was the first sport that I was any good at: I can't sprint, so that was running out and my football skills are non-existant. Later squad trips were great fun and a brilliant way to see the country and the world.
The most inspirational coaches were always the younger ones who'd been there, done it and got the T-shirt. They may not have the bit of paper but they can inspire.
Best stop waffling now and do some work![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
The Lagganlia tour was a very positive step forward compared to the previous Scandinavian trip that only 4 junior per year went on. Regional nomination, while not perfect if some regions have a lot of talented juniors, is better than adding the pressure of selection races to 14 year olds - I think the start squad starts too young.
So what's gone wrong in the last 15 years?
Back then orienteering was being billed as a family sport. There were lots of teenagers and their parents, including last years WOC relay bronze medallists. Now the parents are still orienteering (the massive buldge in the 50 & 55 classes) and some of us teenagers have grown up
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
The focus now seems to be on schools but without transport the kids can't get to events, and most teachers have too much paperwork these days to give up a whole day at the weekend. (My family started orienteering after being introduced by neighbours whose son had been introduced at school so the school route is a good one.) Get the parents involved and you increase the number of 40 years olds that is tailing off as well.
Why did we all stick with orienteering? Me, at 11 it was the first sport that I was any good at: I can't sprint, so that was running out and my football skills are non-existant. Later squad trips were great fun and a brilliant way to see the country and the world.
The most inspirational coaches were always the younger ones who'd been there, done it and got the T-shirt. They may not have the bit of paper but they can inspire.
Best stop waffling now and do some work
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
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Godders - blue
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:37 pm
- Location: Swanston
I'm not a fan of the start stuff really.
I don't think we're a big enough sport to be making focussed elite squads at whatever age it is that start begins (yes, ok, so I don't know the whole facts). But it should be more about encouraging the mases not making an elite squad. So i agree with those that say the focus should be on the regional squads.
I think it's been one of the problems with lottery funding. It seems like as there's been more money going into the sport, some of the things we've had to set up to get the larger ammounts of money haven't been good for the sport, or haven't really caused huge improvements.
Anyway back to regional squads... i think the NW is a great example of how things have worked at a regionBut yes, how a regional squad is run has huge impacts on the number of people who get good, it's definitely not chance,
al squad level - and I reckon it's been an evolution. When I first ran an inter-regionals (1990?) I think the NW finished about last. Since then there seems to have been a serious of coaching teams who've developed the squad, thorugh coaching, getting more numbers involved, having great fun, more coaching, more people, more fun (but no longer at the pub....).
So hats off to all involved over the last 10-15 years (I would and probably should list them, but fearful I'd forget someone).
And at the older end of juniors, younger seniors, whatever happened to the "going for bronze" group that got started a few years ago. Another good way to keep people in the sport, get people training and away on weekends together, and have fun.
Maybe it would be good if this sort of thing got going, perhaps to start with getting unis together for a training weekend a month or two before BUSA, but supporting it financially (not so it's all paid for, but so it's not a huge charge). but also get along other seniors / juniors in the area.
And yes how regional squads are run has a huge bearing on whether people become good or not, it definitely ain't chance.
Anyway, I could (and have previously!) go on about some of these things for hours, but maybe for now it's better to leave it at this.
Fish
I don't think we're a big enough sport to be making focussed elite squads at whatever age it is that start begins (yes, ok, so I don't know the whole facts). But it should be more about encouraging the mases not making an elite squad. So i agree with those that say the focus should be on the regional squads.
I think it's been one of the problems with lottery funding. It seems like as there's been more money going into the sport, some of the things we've had to set up to get the larger ammounts of money haven't been good for the sport, or haven't really caused huge improvements.
Anyway back to regional squads... i think the NW is a great example of how things have worked at a regionBut yes, how a regional squad is run has huge impacts on the number of people who get good, it's definitely not chance,
al squad level - and I reckon it's been an evolution. When I first ran an inter-regionals (1990?) I think the NW finished about last. Since then there seems to have been a serious of coaching teams who've developed the squad, thorugh coaching, getting more numbers involved, having great fun, more coaching, more people, more fun (but no longer at the pub....).
So hats off to all involved over the last 10-15 years (I would and probably should list them, but fearful I'd forget someone).
And at the older end of juniors, younger seniors, whatever happened to the "going for bronze" group that got started a few years ago. Another good way to keep people in the sport, get people training and away on weekends together, and have fun.
Maybe it would be good if this sort of thing got going, perhaps to start with getting unis together for a training weekend a month or two before BUSA, but supporting it financially (not so it's all paid for, but so it's not a huge charge). but also get along other seniors / juniors in the area.
And yes how regional squads are run has a huge bearing on whether people become good or not, it definitely ain't chance.
Anyway, I could (and have previously!) go on about some of these things for hours, but maybe for now it's better to leave it at this.
Fish
- fish
Future of Orienteering
I try not to join in these debates but I do read!
Fish is right when he says it is difficult to comment if you do not know all the facts. Clearly, there is a lack of trust out there that the people that do know more of the facts are not making the right decisions. Speak to me if you have ideas about how things should change.
I think that if each of you who are passionate about the sport offered to help your own Regional Junior Squad for four or five days a year, a lot of youngsters would be motivated in the same way you are. It is true that you do not have to have a coaching qualification to help but it certainly reassures parents if they know that those involved in looking after their children understand the principles of risk assessment etc. It would certainly be more than helpful if an accident occurred.
I know it costs money to become qualified but as far as I know, those who attend coaching courses and ask their clubs to finance them do receive that support. The clubs assume that they will benefit from the coach in the long term.
How many of you would be interested in 5 day Level 1, 2 and 3 training course specifically for young aspirant coaches at Lagganlia on Speyside for £50? I trust that you could ask your clubs to pay for that and your travel? The course would assemble on the Sunday evening 18th July and finish on Friday afternoon the 23rd.
Would anyone want to blitz it and do the First Aid Course on the 17th/18th July for an additional £50?
Get in touch if you are interested.
derek@britishorienteering.org.uk
Fish is right when he says it is difficult to comment if you do not know all the facts. Clearly, there is a lack of trust out there that the people that do know more of the facts are not making the right decisions. Speak to me if you have ideas about how things should change.
I think that if each of you who are passionate about the sport offered to help your own Regional Junior Squad for four or five days a year, a lot of youngsters would be motivated in the same way you are. It is true that you do not have to have a coaching qualification to help but it certainly reassures parents if they know that those involved in looking after their children understand the principles of risk assessment etc. It would certainly be more than helpful if an accident occurred.
I know it costs money to become qualified but as far as I know, those who attend coaching courses and ask their clubs to finance them do receive that support. The clubs assume that they will benefit from the coach in the long term.
How many of you would be interested in 5 day Level 1, 2 and 3 training course specifically for young aspirant coaches at Lagganlia on Speyside for £50? I trust that you could ask your clubs to pay for that and your travel? The course would assemble on the Sunday evening 18th July and finish on Friday afternoon the 23rd.
Would anyone want to blitz it and do the First Aid Course on the 17th/18th July for an additional £50?
Get in touch if you are interested.
derek@britishorienteering.org.uk
- Derek Allison
Braddie wrote:Can someone please explain what level 1, 2 and 3 are and how they interconnect with the coaching ladder
Cheers
See
http://www.cix.co.uk/~derekbofcoach/CoachingAward.html
or more specifically
http://www.cix.co.uk/~derekbofcoach/Coaching%20Award/documents/ga.rtf
Edited to add:
Basically I think the levels are (for those that can't be bothered ploughing through the above documents);
1 - Teacher
2 - Instructor
3 - Club Coach
4 - Regional Coach
5 - National Coach
Hope that's right...
Last edited by Ed on Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ed - diehard
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:11 pm
so theres some evidence that someone from BOF is reading this! good on you Derek!
so come on folks, someone take Derek up on this. It's a good opportunity. Derek I would love to do the first aid course but I think I will be at the O-Ringen with SCOTJOS.
Ben R
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
so come on folks, someone take Derek up on this. It's a good opportunity. Derek I would love to do the first aid course but I think I will be at the O-Ringen with SCOTJOS.
Ben R
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bendover - addict
- Posts: 1459
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:00 am
- Location: London
Level 1 is a basic level for those who are new to orienteering and is assumed in orienteers.
Level 2 allows coaching up to orange standard.
Level 3 allows coaching up to green standard.
Level 4 is more advanced skills such as competition and racing skills.
Does anyone know what the step system is? You were able to download it fromthe old BOF website and that helps explain it better. Level 2 is steps 1 & 2, level 3 is steps 3-5 and level 4 is 5+ etc.
If anyone wants more info pm me - I'll be writing a Compass Sport article at some point about it.
Level 2 allows coaching up to orange standard.
Level 3 allows coaching up to green standard.
Level 4 is more advanced skills such as competition and racing skills.
Does anyone know what the step system is? You were able to download it fromthe old BOF website and that helps explain it better. Level 2 is steps 1 & 2, level 3 is steps 3-5 and level 4 is 5+ etc.
If anyone wants more info pm me - I'll be writing a Compass Sport article at some point about it.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:25 pm
- Location: East Preston Street Massif
step system is just the technical difficulties and the skills you theoretically need to complete a course at that level (e.g. white just orientate the map so you go along the right path, orange simple route-choice and compass-stuff, etc.)
1 - white (M/W 10B)
2 - yellow (M/W 10A)
3 - orange (M/W 12)
4 - l.green (M/W 14)
5- green + (M/W 16)
Hope that's right...
1 - white (M/W 10B)
2 - yellow (M/W 10A)
3 - orange (M/W 12)
4 - l.green (M/W 14)
5- green + (M/W 16)
Hope that's right...
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Ed - diehard
- Posts: 753
- Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:11 pm
Yeah that's basically it-somewhere online there's a copy that shows you the different skills needed for each level, and it's these that the different levelof coaching gets you to teach. I'll see if I can find it somewhere.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:25 pm
- Location: East Preston Street Massif
Time for a bit of a rant, methinks.
Recognise that the contributors here come from a highly biassed sample.
How often do I see "The squad was good for me" "My family helped a lot". Where are the people who didn't make the squad, or whose family didn't orienteer? They do exist, but they dont orienteer anymore and you cant hear their viewpoint.
The idea that the junior squad has much to offer the future of orienteering is totally miguided. Even the regional squads - just look at the numbers and THINK. Are there enough people there to maintain the sport as seniors? No.
Worse, there's a huge dropout between junior squad and seniors. This isn't anyones fault - it happens in all sports - its just to do with growing up, and moving to a different environment. Junior development is a good thing *in itself*, but just because you're the minority who stuck with it (probably with your parents support) dont kid yourselves good junior development will lead to a great future for seniors or that its any substitute for proper recruitment of adults.
Progression from schools is even worse. Where are all those seniors from the popular programmes Ulverston or KESO
.
BOF made a crucial decision about 15 years ago, to ignore adult recruitment and aim for adult retention. Out went B-courses, C-courses red-courses, the natural starting points for fit adults wanting to learn to orienteer. In came short-courses, light-green courses, the natural home for those who could already orienteer, but didnt want to train any more. As I said at the time it was a recipe for burgeoning M50+ and death of M21 participation.
Orienteering is a very difficult sport to break into as an adult (or student). There's a lack of sensible progression (TD 1, 2, 3, 4 courses of reasonable length). There's all the technical and faffy stuff of pictorial descriptions, hiring SI units, bringing your own plastic bag, red pen, whistle. Then you spend your first five minutes of orienteering in the mud, on your knees trying to transcribe a course. Make a single mistake (transcription error, wrong control, missed control) and you're at once disqualified.
Maybe you crack it. Start running well, beat a few established runners Then your adult beginner faces the "not a proper orienteer", "just a runner", "inconsistent" comments (how many times have we heard that
said about out recent PWT medallists Rollins and Barrable?).
Then, if you're a student, you find half the club going off on "squad tours" to which you can't go. Even though you've got a lot to learn about orienteering: in a delicious catch 22 you can't join the tour cos you're not good enough. As a student, I got round that by qualifying as a coach - resulting in the bizarre situation of being easily the least experienced orienteer on the w/e and trying to teach people with years of experience!
In most sports there's a big race of the year. Think KIMM, London marathon, national XC, tour de France, Jukola. Everyone looks forward to, either to participate at the back of the pack or spectate. But what do student orienteers peak for? JWOC, World Students - small events in faraway places with no media coverage which average orienteers care nothing about except to note its "not for the likes of you".
If you want a sport once the current M40+ bulge passes on, you need to look hard at recruitment not of juniors but of young adults. There's plenty
that can be done with a bit of willpower and without great expense.
1/ Make introductory (colour coded) events more user friendly. Premarked maps. Time penalties not disqualification for missed controls.
2/ Ensure that introductory events have courses appropriate for fit adult novices.
3/ Recognise that people who do well at "easy" events (e.g. BOC) did so because they have superior skills for that kind of navigational challenge, not because "it isn't proper orienteering". Running fast is not easy - praise where its due.
4/ Abolish selection for squad training events. Adults can pay, juniors can be supported by clubs. Really good people should win grants by winning races.
5/ Abolish squads for 18-20 ages groups, replace it with generous support for university clubs (if sportscouncil wont allow, have regional centres of excellence based on say Embra, Sheffield and Oxford - the key point is not to establish activities which only half the club will attend)
6/ Formulate a proper strategy for ex-university clubs to keep people in touch through the next few years while they are moving jobs. And ensure that once settled in an area, they move to the local club rather than using the ex-uni affliation to avoid contributing.
7/ Increase the prestige of UK competitions (through prizemoney or guaranteed training grants).
Much of this could be done cost-neutral. I could suggest more things that would benefit me (as an elderly father) but I'm trying to get away from the usual suggestions from elites to crumblies which can be paraphrased as "take money away from stuff I dont do, spend it on the things I do".
And now, I shall go and sit in a cool dark room for a short period of time.
Graeme
Recognise that the contributors here come from a highly biassed sample.
How often do I see "The squad was good for me" "My family helped a lot". Where are the people who didn't make the squad, or whose family didn't orienteer? They do exist, but they dont orienteer anymore and you cant hear their viewpoint.
The idea that the junior squad has much to offer the future of orienteering is totally miguided. Even the regional squads - just look at the numbers and THINK. Are there enough people there to maintain the sport as seniors? No.
Worse, there's a huge dropout between junior squad and seniors. This isn't anyones fault - it happens in all sports - its just to do with growing up, and moving to a different environment. Junior development is a good thing *in itself*, but just because you're the minority who stuck with it (probably with your parents support) dont kid yourselves good junior development will lead to a great future for seniors or that its any substitute for proper recruitment of adults.
Progression from schools is even worse. Where are all those seniors from the popular programmes Ulverston or KESO
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
BOF made a crucial decision about 15 years ago, to ignore adult recruitment and aim for adult retention. Out went B-courses, C-courses red-courses, the natural starting points for fit adults wanting to learn to orienteer. In came short-courses, light-green courses, the natural home for those who could already orienteer, but didnt want to train any more. As I said at the time it was a recipe for burgeoning M50+ and death of M21 participation.
Orienteering is a very difficult sport to break into as an adult (or student). There's a lack of sensible progression (TD 1, 2, 3, 4 courses of reasonable length). There's all the technical and faffy stuff of pictorial descriptions, hiring SI units, bringing your own plastic bag, red pen, whistle. Then you spend your first five minutes of orienteering in the mud, on your knees trying to transcribe a course. Make a single mistake (transcription error, wrong control, missed control) and you're at once disqualified.
Maybe you crack it. Start running well, beat a few established runners Then your adult beginner faces the "not a proper orienteer", "just a runner", "inconsistent" comments (how many times have we heard that
said about out recent PWT medallists Rollins and Barrable?).
Then, if you're a student, you find half the club going off on "squad tours" to which you can't go. Even though you've got a lot to learn about orienteering: in a delicious catch 22 you can't join the tour cos you're not good enough. As a student, I got round that by qualifying as a coach - resulting in the bizarre situation of being easily the least experienced orienteer on the w/e and trying to teach people with years of experience!
In most sports there's a big race of the year. Think KIMM, London marathon, national XC, tour de France, Jukola. Everyone looks forward to, either to participate at the back of the pack or spectate. But what do student orienteers peak for? JWOC, World Students - small events in faraway places with no media coverage which average orienteers care nothing about except to note its "not for the likes of you".
If you want a sport once the current M40+ bulge passes on, you need to look hard at recruitment not of juniors but of young adults. There's plenty
that can be done with a bit of willpower and without great expense.
1/ Make introductory (colour coded) events more user friendly. Premarked maps. Time penalties not disqualification for missed controls.
2/ Ensure that introductory events have courses appropriate for fit adult novices.
3/ Recognise that people who do well at "easy" events (e.g. BOC) did so because they have superior skills for that kind of navigational challenge, not because "it isn't proper orienteering". Running fast is not easy - praise where its due.
4/ Abolish selection for squad training events. Adults can pay, juniors can be supported by clubs. Really good people should win grants by winning races.
5/ Abolish squads for 18-20 ages groups, replace it with generous support for university clubs (if sportscouncil wont allow, have regional centres of excellence based on say Embra, Sheffield and Oxford - the key point is not to establish activities which only half the club will attend)
6/ Formulate a proper strategy for ex-university clubs to keep people in touch through the next few years while they are moving jobs. And ensure that once settled in an area, they move to the local club rather than using the ex-uni affliation to avoid contributing.
7/ Increase the prestige of UK competitions (through prizemoney or guaranteed training grants).
Much of this could be done cost-neutral. I could suggest more things that would benefit me (as an elderly father) but I'm trying to get away from the usual suggestions from elites to crumblies which can be paraphrased as "take money away from stuff I dont do, spend it on the things I do".
And now, I shall go and sit in a cool dark room for a short period of time.
Graeme
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graeme - god
- Posts: 4726
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
The emphasis for regional squads seems to be on training (i've never been in one so I'm just going on what i see) and not competition, there appears to be only one competition where the regions compete against each other (JIRC). Maybe if (like football) junior regional squads could compete against each other more regularly it would provide motivation for others to want to be part of it. School kids might be more interested in a conversation that goes:
'so what did you do this weekend?'
'I was part of the winning team in an orienteering race'
rather than:
'I went training and ran 20km this weekend.'
(or something along those lines
)
the first one is more likely (in my opinion) to get juniors (who are friends of existing orienteers) interested in orienteering.
I understand this would be difficult for a lot of regions (SOA) where the region is very large, and a substantial number of runners are based pretty far away from other regions.
this wouldn't be terribly hard to implement as the event infrastructure is already present, it would just require some communication between regions local to each other.
edit after reading graeme's post: orienteering kind of worked the wrong way round for me; i got involved through my school and from there my mum and dad starting taking me to events and then they got involved through me, which was about 6 years ago (or so). now my mum is in contention for the Scottish vets squad. i missed out on the regional squad (got asked to join just as i was turning M20) and have little hope of making the Scottish squad in the near future. yet I have stuck with the sport, planned lots of events (inc. the scottish nights at Tentsmuir with Bill Stevenson) and am considering getting into coaching. what I'm really trying to say is that the school system can work and should be stuck at.
'so what did you do this weekend?'
'I was part of the winning team in an orienteering race'
rather than:
'I went training and ran 20km this weekend.'
(or something along those lines
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
the first one is more likely (in my opinion) to get juniors (who are friends of existing orienteers) interested in orienteering.
I understand this would be difficult for a lot of regions (SOA) where the region is very large, and a substantial number of runners are based pretty far away from other regions.
this wouldn't be terribly hard to implement as the event infrastructure is already present, it would just require some communication between regions local to each other.
edit after reading graeme's post: orienteering kind of worked the wrong way round for me; i got involved through my school and from there my mum and dad starting taking me to events and then they got involved through me, which was about 6 years ago (or so). now my mum is in contention for the Scottish vets squad. i missed out on the regional squad (got asked to join just as i was turning M20) and have little hope of making the Scottish squad in the near future. yet I have stuck with the sport, planned lots of events (inc. the scottish nights at Tentsmuir with Bill Stevenson) and am considering getting into coaching. what I'm really trying to say is that the school system can work and should be stuck at.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
- god
- Posts: 2455
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:42 pm
- Location: Edinburgh
ok, you've tempted me out...
i very much agree w what graeme has written here. a lot of it seems to be written from the point-of-view of university orienteering. of course, a university O club is an excellent basis for recruitment - high turnover rate means that without active recruitment of new members (orienteers or otherwise) the club will soon become inviable. in addition, university clubs/societies in general are always on an evangelical mission and the fresh-faced youngsters are as often as not on the lookout for something new... it's just to make sure orienteering is tempting enough. in terms of this, i think graeme's points about squads for 18-20 year-olds (i would extend this to special competitions also (see elsewhere)) and easy but long courses (i mean properly long) describe what i found to be most damaging to the process - tho' the general mood on image and razz must surely also be a bonus. finally, extremely high membership population density, communal transport, regular training and top banter (some might even claim sponsorship!) mean that some of these student clubs almost reach the ideal.
and how many of the young orienteers in the uk go to university? i would guess at a high proportion. and then does this exodus of M/W21s play any sort of role on what is happening in the ordinary open club scene?
I think it does, actually. some students are running for open clubs (new or old) in stuff like relays and compass sport cup, whereas others spurn wholeheartedly in favour of the university club. whichever one doesn't get the honour of having 'their' top athletes running for them has got to be feeling fairly gutted.
ok, i couldn't bring myself to say anything downright groundbreakingly controversial, probably because i don't know the answer, but anyway i have to go...
i very much agree w what graeme has written here. a lot of it seems to be written from the point-of-view of university orienteering. of course, a university O club is an excellent basis for recruitment - high turnover rate means that without active recruitment of new members (orienteers or otherwise) the club will soon become inviable. in addition, university clubs/societies in general are always on an evangelical mission and the fresh-faced youngsters are as often as not on the lookout for something new... it's just to make sure orienteering is tempting enough. in terms of this, i think graeme's points about squads for 18-20 year-olds (i would extend this to special competitions also (see elsewhere)) and easy but long courses (i mean properly long) describe what i found to be most damaging to the process - tho' the general mood on image and razz must surely also be a bonus. finally, extremely high membership population density, communal transport, regular training and top banter (some might even claim sponsorship!) mean that some of these student clubs almost reach the ideal.
and how many of the young orienteers in the uk go to university? i would guess at a high proportion. and then does this exodus of M/W21s play any sort of role on what is happening in the ordinary open club scene?
I think it does, actually. some students are running for open clubs (new or old) in stuff like relays and compass sport cup, whereas others spurn wholeheartedly in favour of the university club. whichever one doesn't get the honour of having 'their' top athletes running for them has got to be feeling fairly gutted.
ok, i couldn't bring myself to say anything downright groundbreakingly controversial, probably because i don't know the answer, but anyway i have to go...
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ic - yellow
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:33 pm
- Location: retired
I've been reluctant to get involved in this - we've been trying to 'improve' the image of the sport since I was in the junior squad and progressed pretty much nowhere. The new orienteering formats might appeal to the spectators and competitors who already know about the sport, and have given us greater opportunites for international success, but have made no difference whatsoever to the image of the sport with the general public. When I was a lad there was only one sort of orienteering (now called Long or Classic or something), and orienteering was much more popular with the 18-35 age group then than it is now.
Anyway, I agree with Graeme on a couple of points. Orienteering is just too difficult to get to grips with for somebody new to the sport. Why do we persist in using silly names for things? How is a newcomer to the sport who might live in Wetherby supposed to know that he has the choice of local clubs Eborienteers, Airienteers and Claro. If just one of these would give themselves a proper name (Leeds, Harrogate or York Orienteering Club would probably do it) then he might stand a chance.
And what about Dibbers? Actually I can't think of a good meaningful name for them, but a bad meaningful name is better than SI Card - electronic tag, perhaps.
The new District, Regional, National event names is a step in the right direction - it has some meaning with people from the real world - but what about the colour coded courses. How is somebody unfamiliar with orienteering supposed to know that there is a progression from White to Brown, and that Light Green (Light Green? How did that get in there?) comes before Blue?
We should replace all that with N1 - N4 (N for novice, or something, 1 is white, 2 yellow, 3 orange, 4 red) and T1 - T5 (T for technical, Light Green, Green, Blue, Brown, Black). Then there is a logical progression, somebody can see where they want to start and where the next step is. And just to keep Graeme happy we can invent N7 for long distance runners who can't navigate. Just remember they are real orienteers too.
I cannot agree with open squad sessions - it would just be unworkable - but there is a problem that there is nowhere else to go for newcomers to the sport who might be quite good but have missed the opportunities at junior level. Perhaps there should be a mixture of closed sessions which work as they do now and open sessions where the squad are contributing to the coaching and the squad management are on the lookout for talent.
Anyway I have not really thought about any of this but the silly names thing has always bothered me.
Anyway, I agree with Graeme on a couple of points. Orienteering is just too difficult to get to grips with for somebody new to the sport. Why do we persist in using silly names for things? How is a newcomer to the sport who might live in Wetherby supposed to know that he has the choice of local clubs Eborienteers, Airienteers and Claro. If just one of these would give themselves a proper name (Leeds, Harrogate or York Orienteering Club would probably do it) then he might stand a chance.
And what about Dibbers? Actually I can't think of a good meaningful name for them, but a bad meaningful name is better than SI Card - electronic tag, perhaps.
The new District, Regional, National event names is a step in the right direction - it has some meaning with people from the real world - but what about the colour coded courses. How is somebody unfamiliar with orienteering supposed to know that there is a progression from White to Brown, and that Light Green (Light Green? How did that get in there?) comes before Blue?
We should replace all that with N1 - N4 (N for novice, or something, 1 is white, 2 yellow, 3 orange, 4 red) and T1 - T5 (T for technical, Light Green, Green, Blue, Brown, Black). Then there is a logical progression, somebody can see where they want to start and where the next step is. And just to keep Graeme happy we can invent N7 for long distance runners who can't navigate. Just remember they are real orienteers too.
I cannot agree with open squad sessions - it would just be unworkable - but there is a problem that there is nowhere else to go for newcomers to the sport who might be quite good but have missed the opportunities at junior level. Perhaps there should be a mixture of closed sessions which work as they do now and open sessions where the squad are contributing to the coaching and the squad management are on the lookout for talent.
Anyway I have not really thought about any of this but the silly names thing has always bothered me.
- Neil M35
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