I obviously can't post in the Junior Forum so will put it here instead.
For those juniors that are thinking "my report is really bad, I'm rubbish", you need to stop thinking like that and use the report to your benefit!
If your report says you aren't very good at something this is what you need to be focusing on during these winter months at the district events. We aren't going to say you are perfect at everything. I haven't met a junior yet that is and in such an instance there wouldn't be much point them going on tour.
And for Gandralf - Concentration is the hardest skill of them all if it is good then you are doing well.
Junior Tour Reports
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Junior Tour Reports
Fish are friends not food!
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Rich - orange
- Posts: 121
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- Location: At work in Edwinstowe - Home of Robin Hood
Rich.
It's interesting that you need to post this. I don't know what the current tour reports are like but I know when my son received his Lagganlia report he was gutted and it really dented his confidence. It's not what it said but how it was said. There was a problem in communication and language, the kids need to be boosted with what they are good at and then told that this area is weaker and nees improvement. Often it is forgotten how young and immature these kids are that go to Laganlia. I thought the reports had improved in their presentation, and that there was some consultation with regional coaches now. It's quite right that juniors need to be told where their weaknesses are but it's quite difficult to do this in a written only format. They need to have the report and have someone to discuss it with there and then so they actually don't take the constructive criticism as an indication of failure. Parents are not really the right people for this, and at this age most probably don't have personal coaches to refer to. I believe it would be better for individual chats either at the end of tour or at the next start weekend.
Hocolite
Hocolite
It's interesting that you need to post this. I don't know what the current tour reports are like but I know when my son received his Lagganlia report he was gutted and it really dented his confidence. It's not what it said but how it was said. There was a problem in communication and language, the kids need to be boosted with what they are good at and then told that this area is weaker and nees improvement. Often it is forgotten how young and immature these kids are that go to Laganlia. I thought the reports had improved in their presentation, and that there was some consultation with regional coaches now. It's quite right that juniors need to be told where their weaknesses are but it's quite difficult to do this in a written only format. They need to have the report and have someone to discuss it with there and then so they actually don't take the constructive criticism as an indication of failure. Parents are not really the right people for this, and at this age most probably don't have personal coaches to refer to. I believe it would be better for individual chats either at the end of tour or at the next start weekend.
Hocolite
Hocolite
- Guest
I think Lagganlia is the hardest of them all. I found it difficult to help coach them because they are not very forthcoming when you talk to them and often they would say what they did, where actually they did something totally different (I know because I shadowed them) and were just scared of saying they did it wrong.
I have since done the Halden and Uppsala tours were they are far easier to coach as the juniors are more honest. I think the juniors find the coaches less scary as they get older(with the exception of Kirsten).
When I was going on the various tours I think I only got one maybe two tour reports from the four I went on and don't remember any saying anything in particular about my technique and instead said along the lines of what I should be aiming for for the following year and how I did.
I have since done the Halden and Uppsala tours were they are far easier to coach as the juniors are more honest. I think the juniors find the coaches less scary as they get older(with the exception of Kirsten).
When I was going on the various tours I think I only got one maybe two tour reports from the four I went on and don't remember any saying anything in particular about my technique and instead said along the lines of what I should be aiming for for the following year and how I did.
Fish are friends not food!
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Rich - orange
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I can't comment on Lagganlia because I've not coached on it but certainly on Halden this year each junior had a final debrief with their coach which basically discussed what would be in the tour report. So in that respect the juniors got the chance to discuss good and bad things there and then, and nothing in the tour reports should have been a surprise to any of them.
- El
- light green
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- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:05 pm
- Location: London town
Agree with hocolite, i thought my report was good, and pretty much just said what i'd been told at the end of the tour... but the lagganlia one mike got wasnt very positive, obviously theres no point in just writing about what juniors can do.. but he didnt take his too well and was a bit put out with the "orienteering doesnt come naturally" line, maybe true...but he had very little positive feedback in his so has left him feeling like he's not that great an orienteer..tho in saying that, he's still going out, aiming to do well in races this weekend...so hasnt affected him that badly lol
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Jene - addict
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Young Neville's Laganlia tour report was quite simply appalling and said in the starkest terms "he can't run, can't navigate and doesn't listen" All those things may have been true - but there wasn't even the customary "Neville is a polite, enthusiastic boy" . His Glenmore and Halden tour reports were far more positive and constructive - but that first one would have been enough to make many throw in the towel - infact I've never heard of anyone getting a good report from Laganlia - perhaps it's part of the process ![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
- Posts: 2034
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same with me, my Lagganlia report was awful, but the Halden one much better and more constructive, identifying strengths and weaknesses and actions on how to improve. However I was slightly disappointed when it came, because what was on there was exactly what I wrote with Sian during the final debrief and nothing more. I would have liked to see comments from the coaches about how they felt we worked during the tour etc, and more of an assessment from the coaches as well as the self assessment that we did during the final debrief.
Last edited by helen on Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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helen - junior moderator
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This year the Lagganlia reports were quite harsh for some people but others got really good reports apparently. I thought some of the stuff they wrote in my report were not really to do with anything, what does being the ''biggest'' got to do with your running speed, look at george stevens he's really fast and is small!(sorry george for mentioning you!)Other points though were true. The bad things that people thought when we were discussing the reports at the British schools score and Welsh champs when people thought that they had got the wrong report cos' it didnt seem to match the and they thought they had done better than what it had said. Hopefully for the people who will get into Glenmore next year will have better reports, I know if I get in I wont repeat what lagganlia was like and concentrate more! It said my navigation skills werent brilliant and that I may find higher courses harder which I do so my report did make me think what I had to do when training! keep your heads up Lagganlia friends, I know we can try and prove the coaches wrong when it comes to start weekends and Glenmore!!!!!!!! ![Boosch :boosch:](./images/smilies/icon_arrow.gif)
![Boosch :boosch:](./images/smilies/icon_arrow.gif)
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julz - white
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My Lagganlia year got very mixed reports. Some of us had very good and I think 2 or 3 had nearly perfect ones. However, some had very bad ones saying that they had major faults.
Im not entirly sure what all the Glenmore ones were like but they certaintly were slightly more picky at technique faults (understandable) and seemed to have more structure.
They only problem I feel is that they took a long time comming to us this year whereas at Lagganlia we got them first week of September.
Im not entirly sure what all the Glenmore ones were like but they certaintly were slightly more picky at technique faults (understandable) and seemed to have more structure.
They only problem I feel is that they took a long time comming to us this year whereas at Lagganlia we got them first week of September.
"I can resist everything except temptation"
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Gandralf - red
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- Location: Hell
Bloody Hell !!!!!
I'm quite amazed
the tone sounds like the message coming across to juniors on these training camps is that they are being measured, assessed, judged and some found wanting.
These camps should be about opportunity, assistance and encouragement - not an examination
The time I did Lagganlia I tried to emphasise strengths.
I don't remember if there were written reports though we did sit down at the end of the week with the juniors and go over things.
God - I hope I never put anyone off like this !
Written reports after the event are probably a bad idea because certain aspects (usually the negative) can get read out of proportion.
This being so the focus should be positive, positive, positive - with pointers for improvement not criticism of current abilities.
eg Good at distance judgement and route choice. Would benefit from reading the map ahead more. Excellent at contour reading.
I'm quite amazed
the tone sounds like the message coming across to juniors on these training camps is that they are being measured, assessed, judged and some found wanting.
These camps should be about opportunity, assistance and encouragement - not an examination
The time I did Lagganlia I tried to emphasise strengths.
I don't remember if there were written reports though we did sit down at the end of the week with the juniors and go over things.
God - I hope I never put anyone off like this !
Written reports after the event are probably a bad idea because certain aspects (usually the negative) can get read out of proportion.
This being so the focus should be positive, positive, positive - with pointers for improvement not criticism of current abilities.
eg Good at distance judgement and route choice. Would benefit from reading the map ahead more. Excellent at contour reading.
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:09 pm
- Location: embada
You are absolutely right Kitch - there is always a positive way of saying things and these kids are very young - from our own experience I don't think they are over stating matters either. I was also particularly unimpressed by the letter that came afterwards which was headed in large print
Start Squad Selection!
and then it said: "Sorry you have not been selected" - it takes some creativity to be that unfeeling
I'm pleased to say subsequent tour reports have been much more positive and productive
Start Squad Selection!
and then it said: "Sorry you have not been selected" - it takes some creativity to be that unfeeling
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
I'm pleased to say subsequent tour reports have been much more positive and productive
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Middle England
Nails
This is an interesting subject.
Having coached on Halden this year and Uppsalla last year...i cannot comment on the lagganlia and glenmore tours.
I'd like to comment on the process of coaching on the older tours.
For the whole tour juniors are assigned a coach -who follows their progess for the whole tour. Daily debriefs happen each evening, assessing the positives and negatives -usually a plan is formulated for the next days training 'Paul tommorow you need to focus on choosing an attack point and planning ahead' and so on.
Throughout the tour a daily record is kept by the coaches -and discussions are had once the juniors are off to sleep. By Halden juniors should be focussed enough to take this daily info on board if they want to improve their orienteering skills.
The final report is an amalgamation of all this info. This is split into 3 sections Physical, Technique and Mental. Each then has positives, negatives and actions. These are discussed with the athletes -and to be honest they know where they are weak/strong.
This year I heard some of the juniors worring about their reports -unnecessarily. If they produce performances which get them on tour in the first place -they are doing something right already. The report is a literal breakdown of what they need to work on.
By the older tours, it's in their interest to take on board the report.
Helen -I fail to see how this would help you plan your training for next season? What were you hoping for? You wrote your self assessment with your coach so there are no suprises later on. Had their been anything important i'm sure Sian would have pointed it out to you at the time.
The main thing is- A tour report is 'just' a tool for each individual to confirm their stengths and weaknesses -and make a plan (if they wish) to improve their skills. By Halden an athlete will (should?) know deep down if they want to improve.
Having coached on Halden this year and Uppsalla last year...i cannot comment on the lagganlia and glenmore tours.
I'd like to comment on the process of coaching on the older tours.
For the whole tour juniors are assigned a coach -who follows their progess for the whole tour. Daily debriefs happen each evening, assessing the positives and negatives -usually a plan is formulated for the next days training 'Paul tommorow you need to focus on choosing an attack point and planning ahead' and so on.
Throughout the tour a daily record is kept by the coaches -and discussions are had once the juniors are off to sleep. By Halden juniors should be focussed enough to take this daily info on board if they want to improve their orienteering skills.
The final report is an amalgamation of all this info. This is split into 3 sections Physical, Technique and Mental. Each then has positives, negatives and actions. These are discussed with the athletes -and to be honest they know where they are weak/strong.
This year I heard some of the juniors worring about their reports -unnecessarily. If they produce performances which get them on tour in the first place -they are doing something right already. The report is a literal breakdown of what they need to work on.
By the older tours, it's in their interest to take on board the report.
Helen>> I would have liked to see comments from the coaches about how they felt we worked during the tour etc, and more of an assessment from the coaches as well as the self assessment that we did during the final debrief.
Helen -I fail to see how this would help you plan your training for next season? What were you hoping for? You wrote your self assessment with your coach so there are no suprises later on. Had their been anything important i'm sure Sian would have pointed it out to you at the time.
The main thing is- A tour report is 'just' a tool for each individual to confirm their stengths and weaknesses -and make a plan (if they wish) to improve their skills. By Halden an athlete will (should?) know deep down if they want to improve.
Tetley and its Golden Farce.
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Nails - diehard
- Posts: 685
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The main thing is
there is a very delicate line to be trod. Coaches need to be careful to convey a positive message and not to come across as critical or make the subject feel they are failing in some way. It is very very easy for comments to be misconstrued.
there is a very delicate line to be trod. Coaches need to be careful to convey a positive message and not to come across as critical or make the subject feel they are failing in some way. It is very very easy for comments to be misconstrued.
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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