Emit

[Drew]

just thinking, i dont have a clue how i hold it, never really thought about it , just did it, hold it how its comfy

[FatBoy]

So how did you other Emit virgins get on?

It was my first Emit day and I've ended up holding it exactly the same as the SI card. Middle finger of non-compass hand on the inside (yes inside), then as you make a fist it comes through between middle and index finger where it can be gripped and directed. No good for filling in the Emit backup card but seeing as mine was virtually a rag by the end of day 1 who cares.

It may open up a can of worms but I've got to say I prefer SI any day of the week. I can live without the beep but I need a more positive way of punching without going to the extreme of orientating the card and pushing it home. The flash is feeble and normally does it's first flash while you're still trying to get the card near the business end of the unit. Anyone from Emit listening like to respond?

[Simon]

(I am not an Emit official, but will comment anyway)

The flash is feeble and normally does it's first flash while you're still trying to get the card near the business end of the unit.

Based on one of the other events I have done then yes. The electronics can register from a reasonable distance (20cm). This means that generally the electronics have registered the punch long before you get the card in the slot - especially if you are still messing around trying to get it lined up.

No good for filling in the Emit backup card but seeing as mine was virtually a rag by the end of day 1 who cares.

The backup system does suffer when it is wet and many people ignore using it.


I found the Emit light flash to be easier to see if you are not looking directly down on it. Neither system is good when you are running into a loud and sunny area, a big event run in or a relay changeover ...

I have used both quite a few times now and still find the SI system easier. I find the Emit 'brick' to be too large to hold comfortably. Emit does seem to be more friendly to the planner, but the key to either system is making sure that whomever is running it knows what they are doing!

[SJ]

I followed Rocky's advice and put the card on my index finger, worked well for me - better than when I had it on my pinky the 1st time I used Emit

probably encouraged me to hold my map and compass in the same hand too- I sometimes swap my map to my right hand but I navigate better with them in the same hand

[graeme]

(I am not an Emit official, but will comment anyway)
Based on one of the other events I have done then yes. The electronics can register from a reasonable distance (20cm). This means that generally the electronics have registered the punch long before you get the card in the slot

The new EMIT system was used at the Welsh 6-day (but only on the string course). The units register with a range of about 5m, so you could just run past without making any effort to punch - the ecard has an LCD display which tells you that you've punched. You could even keep your ecard in your pocket.

Graeme

[Mrs H.]

That's the way to do it! Came across something similar ski-ing this year. you kept your lift pass in your pocket and just walked through the turnstile - none of that frantic fiddling to find your pass with cold hands. Emit seems a lot easier to use for the organisers etc and to be perfectly honest the rest of us are just whingeing if we find it marginally harder to use than SI

[Simon]

The new EMIT system was used at the Welsh 6-day (but only on the string course). The units register with a range of about 5m, so you could just run past without making any effort to punch

These have been used at the Wednesday army events in the south through the summer. Several of these events were primarily mountain bike courses and for those competitors it is very good to be able to punch in that way (I believe that the system is similarly used for ski-o).

One issue I did hear was competitors getting confused with which control they were next to visit. Since the LCD display tells you how many controls you have visited and these controls 'punch' at a distance it was possible to register punching a control that you just went past. Then you were left having punched at more controls than you had actually gone to.

The run through finish, at the November Classic last year, was good as well. None of the stopping to punch a finish control - just run through the line.

[Becks]

And surely you could register at a control in thick ish veg having not actually found it? Surely removes some of the need to navigate to the feature, which isn't really the point?

[Simon]

I think there is some argument that if you have got to within the five metres that the system registers the punch then you really should be able to see the control anyway. Such controls in thick vegetation are often bingo anyway.

[Becks]

But you could be on the wrong side of a thicket, for example, having not read your control descriptions - 2 seconds running round the thicket the wrong way can make all the difference!

[Rookie]

I don't like the idea of punching at 5m - as Becks said you might not have actually found the control - and the range will never stay constant (eg. if battery gets low, other interference) so some people may be registered closer to it that others. What about score events? There might be a control that you run past without relising its there (if you're lost) and still get the points.

Would be good at tthe finish though coz it would allow you to run across a line rather than have to punch (like at the Nov Classic last year).

Out in Norway over the summer a lot of the emit boxes didn't even have LEDs so you needed the paper backup but if you trust the system the old cards reading at 20cm could be faster since you could just swipe the brick (i wouldn't trust it though - can't see the light at speed)

For bike o the 5m would be nice because you wouldn't need to get off the bike to punch but you could just ride past it at the side of a track, not even see it, but still punch it.

Stick to SI

[redkite]

Assuming you can find a way of holding the card so you can 'punch' easily, I cannot see much difference from a competitors point of view, although i agree that punching from 5m is probably too far.

Felt a bit strange at the start on Sat but didn't notice the card once I got got running. I did check that the light flashed, but then I do similar for SI

Has anyoner got any idea what the relative cost of the base units are for the two systems. what does it cost to replace a stolen or damaged unit?

[Bored at work]

I can only find a Emit price list in Norwegian Kroner (currently £1:12.3NOK - according to BBC online's currency list), which is here.
The SI price list is in Euros (currently £1:1.46euros) and is here (for stuff) and here (for software).

That makes a control unit (with light) at around £35
Stand for post unit and plastic base are listed seperately in the price list, so I am unsure if the above includes the stand or not - the extra would be £10 if needed.
The start control is more expensive (£40).
The touch free controls are about £65.


The new style SI control boxes are £65 and the stands £16 (though I have heard there are cheaper options for the stands) - but this does mean that it is not a like for like comparison, as I assume you can still get the older style control boxes for less.
Over the life of a SI system you will need to buy some replacement battery packs at a couple of pounds a time.


The Emit software seems to be nearly £300, but it is not clear what events that can cover.
SI software pricing is more confusing. For colour coded events I believe you can use a free version of Mike Napier's program. For Kramer's software the prices vary depending on what types of events you wish to hold (£100 for the normal software, then £100 for the multiday and £100 for the relay - roughly speaking).



EmitUK is currently selling version 3 cards at £38 and version 2 at £20 (I think on the later)

SI cards are currently £18 for version 5 and £39 for version 6 from SI UK.

This means that the user cost of the card for either is almost identical.

[Ed]

I think the emit units are a bit cheaper than the SI ones, but then the emit cards always used to be more expensive than the SI ones (c£40 for a version 3 with LCD), but the SI v6 is almost that much now (v5 still cheaper though).

Probably the big difference though is really the way the batteries work - emit are sealed units (both controls and cards), so once the battery runs out it's time for a completely new bit of kit (I think, although no doubt someone has managed to replace the batteries). Having said that, the battery life isn't bad (I think there's a 5 year guarantee) and some version 1 emit (or regnly!) cards from 1995 are still going strong.

Compared to that, SI has a battery in the unit which has a shorter lifespan (I'm sure everyone's aware of that!), but is easily and cheaply changed. There is no power source in the card though, giving it a theoretically infinite life. That, though, gives the developers a problem since it means that all new SI units have to be backward compatible with all SI cards ever sold, whereas emit could just assume if it wasn't made in the last 10 years or so then the battery would have died and they need no longer support it - e.g. the 'punchless punches' require a v3 emit card (the one with the LCD display).

Sorry, getting a bit geeky here - I think my general point is that there's quite a lot of differences between the systems. Personally I probably prefer SI as particularly with a v6 card it's probably slightly quicker and easier to punch (an advantage on spring cup 1st legs - I'd hate to be doing wrist manipulation in that situation!), and is definitely easier to carry. Having said that, once I've set off with an emit brick in my hand I rarely notice it, and with a "bit" of practice the punching with it's not too bad...

[mharky]

Personally I probably prefer SI as particularly with a v6 card it's probably slightly quicker and easier to punch (an advantage on spring cup 1st legs - I'd hate to be doing wrist manipulation in that situation!), and is definitely easier to carry

yes, but im sure every one is the race will be using the same punching system... so be proficiant at both and lets go orienteering!!!